loudoun valley has 11 boys out of 24 in the state 3200 championship

Drew's Mom coming in with some FIRE!!!!

As a former mediocre Virginia high school athlete myself it's very obvious to see Loudoun Valley plays by the rules. Does it piss everyone off including myself? Yeah of course! But way back in 2016 I think my high school were the only ones not to be excited for Drew Hunter at the state meet. Fortunately he didn't take our beloved Andrew Colley's state meet record, but prior to that year almost no one had a problem with how successful Drew and his team was. It's unfortunate VHSL won't upgrade schools based on prior state performance as it'd be nice to see LV take on Ocean Lakes, Deep Run, Lee Davis, etc. But the dominance they show in the distance program doesn't necessarily translate to dominance on the track. Just look 2 years ago when Jamestown almost ran them out of the state outdoor track title with 4 individual performances(Mostly sprint and field) and 2 relays. The only reason LV won wasn't because of they're distance program but because their sprinters showed up when the team needed them. It's a shame to see a lot of nova kids obsess over LV just cause of the status but who can blame them when the coaches are as legendary as the Hunters. My suggestion... get fit or quit it ain't rec basketball

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I don't think most people are penalizing Loudoun Valley for sending so many kids.

But I am going to continue to penalize the 6-class system. Making it three classifications would not destroy small schools. We have plenty of very small schools in Pennsylvania and only 3 classifications despite 4 million more people. Those schools get by just fine. Qualifying for states isn't the end all, especially for very small schools.

I've also never heard of only letting two per school compete at the state meet. I don't think that's super common. Anyone who runs under the qualifying time should get to run at the state meet.

You are referring to the XC classes for PA right? Indoor, there are no classes, and as of last year, we only had 2 classes in outdoor... I heard that they were talking about expanding to 3 classes for Outdoor, but I haven't heard if that materialized or not.

As for the topic. If the athlete hits the standard, they should go to the whatever meet it qualifies them for. I know that PA's district meets have a max of 3 athletes per school per event. Constantly see kids miss the district race that were faster than the other 12 kids that made it (just giving a random number as an example). So if LV had 11 kids that hit that standard, they should send all 11 to the meet because they hit the required time.

rflint1 wrote:

My suggestion... get fit or quit it ain't rec basketball

It’s a lot easier to for LV to “get fit” when they get 5 guys every year from other schools who are talented, motivated, and hungry for a national title. Meanwhile the rest of us have to really work to get our runners to believe it’s possible to take it seriously, or that they can shoot for something higher.

I coach a very successful team that I’m extremely proud of, and the biggest thing I’ve learned over the years is not some magical training plan - it is how to motivate kids to want to work hard year round. Sometimes for a runner it takes them 3 years to figure that out. So I think the issue people have is that LV is getting a whole crop of these guys each year who have it figured out.

Coach Hunter asked: If a bunch of people transferred to my school, would I turn them down? Heck no! I would coach them the best I could. Would I feel guilty if I suddenly won some state titles (we usually finish somewhere between 4th and 12th) or made it to nationals? Yes, I would. But yeah I’d get over it.

The Hunters do a great job with what they have. They have created the culture of training consistently and wanting to be great. Let’s just not pretend like getting talented, motivated transfers who want to run 60-70 miles a week and do whatever it takes isn’t a huge advantage. The rest of us are lucky to get a guy or two each class who is that motivated, and usually they aren’t that talented.

Take any group of talented young guys, and get them to run 60 mpw for a few years, and ANYONE can get to nationals.

Elmhurst (York) High School, Illinois

Homegrown, this is how its done. Joe Newton coached for 60 years here.

State Championship XC teams under Coach Joe Newton:

1962

1965

1968

1971

1972

1973

1978

1980

1981

1982

1983

1984

1986

1989

1990

1991

1992

1993

1994

1999

2000

2002

2003

2004

2005

2006

2010

2012

State Championship Track teams under Coach Joe Newton:

2000

2009

2014

NXN Teams Under Coach Joe Newton:

2004 (National Champions)

2005 (2nd)

2006 (10th)

2007 (9th)

2008 (2nd)

2009 (13th)

2010 (14th)

2011 (13th)

2012 (6th)

Long Green Line wrote:

Elmhurst (York) High School, Illinois

Homegrown, this is how its done. Joe Newton coached for 60 years here.

2012 (6th)

And I guess you know for a fact that no kids ever moved or transferred to go to York HS in 60 years?

ric flair woo wrote:

seems a little unfair or the competition in VA just sucks. how does 1 school become allowed to have 11 boys enter 1 event for the state championship? illinois you are allowed 2 at most, even if you had 3 boys hit qualifying standard. thoughts?

Illinois does not have a sanctioned indoor state meet. The meet that is unofficially considered indoor state (Illinois Prep Top Times) allows for the fastest athletes to compete in each event regardless of school. Therefore, as happened two years ago, Cahokia could have 6 of the top 8 400 runners compete. Once you get outdoors, and you have a sanctioned state meet, you have a limit of two entrants per school per individual event. How does Virginia do outdoor?

Also, six classes is ridiculous. We have three classes in Illinois, and we have some who complain that's one two many.

oftenrunning52 wrote:

you get outdoors, and you have a sanctioned state meet, you have a limit of two entrants per school per individual event. How does Virginia do outdoor?

This is an old comparison of state meet qualification for every state:

It is from 2012 but it indicates that state meet qualification in VA is only by time. I am not sure if that is still true but I think it is.

Here are the 2019 outdoor standards:

.

There is some interesting reading in there. VA is not the only state with a lot of classes for its population. Connecticut has 5 classes. Arkansas has 7. Idaho has 5 (how many people live in Idaho?)

Quite a few states have unlimited entries per school for "all who meet the qualifying standard."

Do better coach. All this whining is unbecoming.

Coach in Ohio wrote:

Take any group of talented young guys, and get them to run 60 mpw for a few years, and ANYONE can get to nationals.

Old, old VHSL participant:

If you actually read my post, you’d know that I’m not whining, and actually on the side of coach hunter. They can’t control what kids and families choose to do - they work with what they have and I would do the same in their position. Just pointing out that just because they don’t actively recruit these kids, doesn’t mean they don’t have a huge advantage and that should be acknowledged.

Also, who is really complaining about LV qualifying so many to this race? They are FOLLOWING THE RULES. I do agree with Old VHSL in that sense - do better!

If you want to be upset, be upset with the people who made the rules.

Recruiting wins Championships wrote:

Lapped Miler wrote:

A certain school with an inspiring running tradition has an impressive THREE separate teams in the boys 4xMile

17 The Jungle Tc-Va

1) X 2) X

3) X 4) Hunter, Jacob 12

18 The Jungle Tc-Va 'B'

1) Windle, Jacob 12 2) Hasle, Kellen 11

3) X 4) Arellano, Christian 11

19 The Jungle Tc-Va 'C'

1)X 2) Ney, Taylor 11

3) X 4) X

Edited to remove transfers

Why so salty?

Coach from Ohio wrote:

Also, who is really complaining about LV qualifying so many to this race? They are FOLLOWING THE RULES. I do agree with Old VHSL in that sense - do better!

If you want to be upset, be upset with the people who made the rules.

Fair play to the Hunters and LV, they are doing nothing wrong. And I don't think they are recruiting. Their time is spent focusing on the team they have, not on getting more studs to transfer.

However, I think the 6 divisions that VA has opens a nice discussion. What is the ideal model? Is there an ideal model? I want to take back what I said in my first post about LV qualifying 11 people in the 3200 being unfair. Coach Hunter has a point, qualifying by the time on your watch should be more important that qualifying based on where you place at a regional. A lot of great runners miss out because they were not top 2 or top 3 at a specific regional meet.

In Illinois it used to be 2 divisions. One was the most populated schools and the other was the schools in the middle of no-where with much lower populations. That way, the best kids from the suburbs compete against each other, but we don't count out all of the smaller schools in the state that lack the quality coaching and funds for their students to go to big meets. It gives everyone an opportunity. Illinois is now 3 divisions, which I'm not totally opposed to. But I do think that 2 was better. But then again, what works for Illinois may not work in every state.

As to the post about Elmhurst (York) above, it looks like LV is creating a similar dynasty of their own. It all starts with culture and getting the kids to buy-in to the program and dedication, which LV obviously has. Really looking forward to seeing how LV's THREE 4x1 mile relays do, that is totally insane to have 3 qualify for nationals.

Also, I could be wrong but wasn't affolder from illinois originally? I think he transferred to PA before settling in VA. We lost Zach Kinne to PA because of transfer this season. He would have contended for the state title this year in IL.

ric flair woo wrote:

Also, I could be wrong but wasn't affolder from illinois originally? I think he transferred to PA before settling in VA. We lost Zach Kinne to PA because of transfer this season. He would have contended for the state title this year in IL.

Born in Kentucky. They are a military family so it difficult to say where he is "from." Live in Alaska, New York, Illinois, PA, VA, TN, CO, and Kansas.

Not sure there is a "right" answer to how many divisions a state should have. There are tradeoffs in these systems.

Coach in Ohio wrote:

Old, old VHSL participant:

If you actually read my post, you’d know that I’m not whining, and actually on the side of coach hunter. They can’t control what kids and families choose to do - they work with what they have and I would do the same in their position. Just pointing out that just because they don’t actively recruit these kids, doesn’t mean they don’t have a huge advantage and that should be acknowledged.

You're pulling the classic praise-and-b*tch move in the same post. The "Yes, but..." way of complementing AND complaining. Coach in Ohio, you wish you had blue chippers show up at practice late every summer. If it happened, like you said, you'd do the best you could to further develop the talent dropped into your lap, and you'd feel guilt at your team's successes.

Since it hasn't happened, you are just speculating about how you'd feel. Like speculating about winning the lottery...let's see, if I won $300 million, I'd act in a certain way...

You'd get over your guilt, and you'd get on your knees and thank the running gods, and/or your maker, and you'd smile all the way to practice every single day.

You are still whining wrote:

Since it hasn't happened, you are just speculating about how you'd feel. Like speculating about winning the lottery...let's see, if I won $300 million, I'd act in a certain way...

You'd get over your guilt, and you'd get on your knees and thank the running gods, and/or your maker, and you'd smile all the way to practice every single day.

hahaha bro chill TF out. It's ok to speculate. That's part of sport.

ric flair woo wrote:

hahaha bro chill TF out. It's ok to speculate. That's part of sport.

And so is commenting on someone's sports speculation, without busting a capillary...bro. So, bro, chill TF out...bro.

By the way, to all them thar coaches talking about how "in my state" or "in the olden days" things were different than today in VA or at Loudoun Valley High School, let me just say that...in the olden days, my high school was too poor to have an oval track. Couldn't afford woods to run through. Qualified only two, max, for the state meet per event based on economic indicators for the school district. The only transferring we did was with the baton...which was a piece of cow bone because we couldn't afford real batons. Our cheating was confined to the classroom, for goodness sake! These were the good old days.

Finally, just bro, bro! (I just made up a verb, bro.)

AND, for those who think there's anger in the above words, there isn't. Just having a little anonymous fun (amusing to me, that is).

You are still whining wrote:

The only transferring we did was with the baton..

hahaha

Hi Mrs. Hunter,

I was wondering if Jacob is your last son to graduate from LV this year or do you have other sons that will be running at LV in the future?

BIG DREW HUNTER FAN

Sincerely,

Big Drew Hunter Fan