Migrants just tunnel under the wall:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/border-crossing-arrests_us_5c443de4e4b0bfa693c4551d
Migrants just tunnel under the wall:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/border-crossing-arrests_us_5c443de4e4b0bfa693c4551d
Pierre Douton wrote:
Arguing that it won't is like arguing that it's pointless to lock your door because someone could use an advanced lock picking set or attack it with a battering ram. Yeah that's true but it keeps 99% of the riff raff at bay, so it's effective, especially when combined with other security measures like an alarm.
It's more like putting a hundred billion dollar lock on your front door when your windows are still made of glass and the back door is unlocked and most experts agree that the hundred billion dollar lock won't be particularly effective at actually locking the door.
Plus you've also told all of your neighbors that the only reason you're putting a hundred billion dollar lock on your door is because you don't like people with dark skin. Or Muslims or women or half the people who used to work for you.
I didn't read all the pages of this thread so maybe this has been covered already.
I would wager that 98% of the people making comments on this issue worldwide have never physically been to the geographical regions of the southern border and seen what the land / terrain looks like. Over most sections of the border between Laredo TX and California, a wall is unnecessary because the terrain itself acts as enough of a barrier. These are incredibly rugged, isolate regions. No roads. No water. No nothing. Raw desert. Mountains. A migrant simply can't walk across a thousand miles of rocky mountains and desert with zero infrastructure. And then it's largely more of the same on "our" side.
Most of the west Texas / big bend region is such rugged, isolated landscape that building a solid wall along the border there would be an unbelievable feat of engineering. Simply getting into those areas the equipment necessary to erect a steel or cement wall would be so expensive and difficult it almost defies belief. Once again, there are no roads. There is nothing down there. It is mountains and rocks. You can't just drive a cement truck up to the rio grande and put your construction crews up in the holiday inn. These are totally remote, desolate areas. The menacing geography itself is its own wall, a thousand miles thick.
If more people had any experience with these desert regions this would be a non-issue because 1- building a wall wouldn't add any security to the thousand miles of impassable chihuahuan desert already in place for free. And 2- would be so incredible an engineering feat you couldn't get it done in twenty years, let alone the 2-6 this Trump moron has left in office.
you forgot.....Trump is a master Builder.
It comes down to the fact that there are significantly more cost effective ways to reduce illegal immigration than just building a big wall. The numbers dont add up for a wall at this point thus there shouldn't be a wall. Left leaning non-partisan here but i think that instead of the political retards specifying whether the money be used to build a wall or fence or whatever, let's just give the money to fund general "southern border security" to the DHS and if they want to put up some more fences in strategic locations they can go for it. If not, oh well, go buy some drones and hire more agents. Instead of the politicians who know nothing about the issue mandating how we keep out illegals let's let the experts decide.
I love the illegal immigrants. Their women are hot! They clean my house and wear those tight outfits!! I can spank them in the a$$, and they say nothing. because they know if it comes down to an argument.... I love this. This is awesome.
bad analogy wrote:
well because the majority of illegal immigrants and illegal drugs aren't entering through areas that the wall will block. Most are just coming through legal and entry points, airports, and by sea. The wall is an extraordinary expense that that won't solve the problem. It might not even be a problem worth solving. The money could be better spent elsewhere.
You really think cartels with more money than some state governments aren't going to find a way to meet the demand for drugs in the US? There are already well-developed channles for moving large amount of drugs into country that wouldn't be affected by the wall.
It's clear it's just a political stunt/ego boost. signal to the base of the president. I really don't think he gives a flying fk if it prevents any drugs at all from entering the country.
+eleventeen
The OP didn't really specify what metric he wants to use to assess whether or not a wall would work.
1. Stop drugs? Most come through in trucks, planes, boats, cars.... Won't stop those.
2. Stop illegal immigration? Most from overstaying visas.... Won't stop those
Won't even stop all people on foot.
WILL stop us from spending however many billion on something beneficial... Like education
Why haven't prior presidents pushed for an expensive, fortress like wall? What does he see that other presidents didn't? Why can't he make a case for it? Does "Build a Wall, Crime Will Fall" impress you?
Trump cites a security crisis as a reason why his wall is needed, but construction will take years to complete, if ever. What will be done in the interim?
A recent poll shows that 37%, or Trump's base, believe a wall is necessary and only 28% believe having a wall is worth a shut-down.
Why should Congress approve a $5.7B for a wall Trump can't make a case for that is supported only by his base?
lehrski wrote:
Migrants just tunnel under the wall:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/border-crossing-arrests_us_5c443de4e4b0bfa693c4551d
Again, this is the James Bond argument I listed in my OP. You lock the doors to your car or house, right? Some thief could just smash your window. Why bother?
Such a fatalist, defeatist attitude. It's no wonder most leftists are suffering from anxiety and depression.
There have been MANY reasons given to you why a wall isn't the best option, yet you ignore EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
Your entire post was a trap from the beginning. There is no changing the mind of one so entrenched in their hatred to even LISTEN to other viewpoints.
I'm sorry a brown person took your job harvesting seasonal crops. It must be tough to be you.
Pierre Douton wrote:
Again, this is the James Bond argument I listed in my OP. You lock the doors to your car or house, right? Some thief could just smash your window. Why bother?
Such a fatalist, defeatist attitude. It's no wonder most leftists are suffering from anxiety and depression.
But it is not a James Bond argument. Smugglers dug the tunnels. There is big money being made by coyotes/human and drug smugglers. They are not going to give up just because there is a barrier of some sort on the border. And it is not at all difficult for a few guys to dig a tunnel along the border. You do not have to drill through bedrock. The soil is soft enough to shovel out by hand, but stable enough that you do not need to build in any sort of elaborate structural reinforcements to keep it from collapsing.
And even if there was such a thing as a super duper wall that could not be scaled or tunneled under (which is the real James Bond issue), smugglers will just go out to sea to move people into the US.
The US has a negative birth rate. There isn't enough interest in immigration from the EU/UK and Canada to offset this decline. We need immigration from south of the border. But the legal way to get to the US is for all practical purposes impossible. It can take over a decade just to get a response from the US on an application for a green card if you are coming from south of the border. That is why people cross illegally. Until there is a fair and efficient immigration system for people south of the border, there will be no end to illegal entry.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/coyote-bros-how-hard-partying-college-kids-became-immigrant-smugglers-107995/1) U.S. and Mexico are trading partners. It is efficient for mobility of labor not to have a wall. For seventy or so years, individuals south of the border (some Mexicans, some from other nations) work in U.S. Agriculture.
2) Big walls between trading partners is not friendly, nor is it efficient. Spain and France are trading partners in E.U. There is no massive wall between Spain and France.
English is not the national language of the US! There is no national language. If you don't believe me loo it up. Now you see you should not comment on ANYTHING until you are sure that you know what you are taking about.
walls of desert wrote:
If more people had any experience with these desert regions this would be a non-issue because 1- building a wall wouldn't add any security to the thousand miles of impassable chihuahuan desert already in place for free. And 2- would be so incredible an engineering feat you couldn't get it done in twenty years, let alone the 2-6 this Trump moron has left in office.
This. I'm in Arizona, not far from the border. In places, the AZ/Mex border goes up and over mountain ranges. Sure, you may be able to hike over it if you had extensive supplies, but no way could you drive a concrete truck up there, or bulldoze up a mountain to make a wall. Forget it.
I don't know what it's like in Texas, but even in Arizona it can be extremely rugged and desolate. It would be a modern marvel that would take many, many presidential terms to build.
Come on!!! wrote:
More than half of what you call illegal immigration comes from people overstaying legal visas. They mostly fly in.
It's closer to 44% I believe. According to Stephen Crowder. And this link below
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/Come on!!! wrote:
More than half of what you call illegal immigration comes from people overstaying legal visas. They mostly fly in.
How do the other half get in?
Has anyone considered that people near the border actually want cheap labour to farm their lands?
Illegals are wanted and that's your first and main problem.
Nothing to do with a wall lol.
Flagpole wrote:
Pierre Douton wrote:
Like yeah, I get that some dudes are going to get all James Bond digging tunnels or flying drones with drugs over the wall, but won't it stop the average illegal (ahem, "undocumented", these are mostly just guys who left their passports at home by mistake) immigrant from busting in?
Arguing that it won't is like arguing that it's pointless to lock your door because someone could use an advanced lock picking set or attack it with a battering ram. Yeah that's true but it keeps 99% of the riff raff at bay, so it's effective, especially when combined with other security measures like an alarm.
But I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
1) Your second paragraph is bunk. If you want to keep illegals out, you put an end to the reason they come here illegally...to get work. Make fines enormous and impose prison sentences for people who hire illegal workers. Right now it is a slap on the wrist if you are caught hiring an illegal worker. Make the first instance $500,000 fine or hell even a million dollar fine and prison for 5 years. That will put a stop to it. Your produce will cost more, but I'm fine with that.
2) You can not put a border wall along the entire southern border, so since you can't do that, and even Trump now agrees that that is not feasible, what about those who just want to rough it and cross where there is no border wall?
3) The vast majority of illegal people in this country came in on Visas and overstayed.
4) Others come in illegal through legal ports of entry.
5) What if you did close off the entire southern border? Well, they come in by boat on the coasts then or through the northern border.
6) A southern border wall that Trump wants (and let's not forget he has continually lied that it is already being built) is ONLY a symbol of keeping brown people out.
7) Ever heard of a ladder?
8) Let's also not forget that Trump didn't even want to allow people to make a case for amnesty. That is not what America is all about.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/06/15/461342F300000578-0-image-a-72_1509981029298.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/GIYHuMSvqoM/maxresdefault.jpghttp://creativetimereports.org/files/2016/03/inlineStephen_Stapleton-Culture_Runners_Tijuana-1003-L.jpg
Right, but when Hillary wanted a wall along with dozens of other Democrats, you were okay with it. Douche' Bag!
No, she said a barrier! Right, she meant a 5 foot tall cyclone fence...idiot! She meant a wall!!!! It's called backpedaling, she's a pro at it.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Why haven't prior presidents pushed for an expensive, fortress like wall? What does he see that other presidents didn't? Why can't he make a case for it? Does "Build a Wall, Crime Will Fall" impress you?
Trump cites a security crisis as a reason why his wall is needed, but construction will take years to complete, if ever. What will be done in the interim?
A recent poll shows that 37%, or Trump's base, believe a wall is necessary and only 28% believe having a wall is worth a shut-down.
Why should Congress approve a $5.7B for a wall Trump can't make a case for that is supported only by his base?
Schumer and Pelosi BOTH voted to provide $52 Billion (almost 10 times what he is asking) previously. They thought it was a great idea back then. What happened? Oh, because Trump wants it now. Sickening.
