Advice on developing speed for extreme slow twitch athlete

another teacher wrote:

areusure? wrote:

You really should rethink your thought on the first sentence. Any of my students in my undergrad muscle physiology class can explain how wrong your statement is. Maybe you've never take a physiology class but what you're saying is similar to saying lifting weights will not change muscle cross-sectional area.

I'm not sure what level of physiology you teach, but you should be instructing that type 1 slow twitch fibers will not change into fast type 2 fibers. Any evidence contrary to this is extremely questionable. If any changes did occur it would be on a very minute level if at all and still would be not proven. If you are teaching your students something else I feel bad for them.

You can change the characteristics of type 2 fibers in terms of mitochondrial density.

We all have a mix. But those who predominantly rely on type 1 fibers need to be trained differently than those who are predominantly type 2. It's crazy how different two people can be. You can send them both off to do a max 400 and one will have a blood lactate level of 16-18 five minutes after the effort and the other 6-8. The latter will also clear it quicker. Hmmm....different rest periods are maybe needed for adaptations to the workout. Try to think about your science being applied.

It's just one of the many variables into understanding how each athlete is different. There is a ton of advice on this site about people using a sample size of one (themselves) to explain how everyone should train. Then their are people that claim to teach college (I hope not!) giving false information.

another non-expert on muscles wrote:

another teacher wrote:

I'm not sure what level of physiology you teach, but you should be instructing that type 1 slow twitch fibers will not change into fast type 2 fibers. Any evidence contrary to this is extremely questionable. If any changes did occur it would be on a very minute level if at all and still would be not proven. If you are teaching your students something else I feel bad for them.

You can change the characteristics of type 2 fibers in terms of mitochondrial density.

We all have a mix. But those who predominantly rely on type 1 fibers need to be trained differently than those who are predominantly type 2. It's crazy how different two people can be. You can send them both off to do a max 400 and one will have a blood lactate level of 16-18 five minutes after the effort and the other 6-8. The latter will also clear it quicker. Hmmm....different rest periods are maybe needed for adaptations to the workout. Try to think about your science being applied.

It's just one of the many variables into understanding how each athlete is different. There is a ton of advice on this site about people using a sample size of one (themselves) to explain how everyone should train. Then their are people that claim to teach college (I hope not!) giving false information.

Tell us on letsrun of the study on infants. Tell me university physiologist when you last did a muscle biopsy on homo sapien infants. No one has. Muscle biopsies are done on teenagers to highly competitive athletes in their early thirties. Go do muscle biopsies on retired elite sprinters in their seventies. If you're right, even though guys like Bob Beamon, Tommy Smith, James Hines and John Carlos are non-athletes now, according to you, they should test out over 90% fast twitch. You cannot ethically do muscle biopsies on infants; physiologists won't do biopsies on retired athletes in their seventies. You won't because you guys are afraid elite sprinters of old will test no where near what you guys believe they should test.

Han Solo wrote:

Athlete Bio

Age 17 male - running seriously for last 1.5 years. 5’5” / 135 lbs but very strong, muscular. Can deadlift 4 sets of 5 reps at 270 lbs. has solid running form, pretty efficient, very arrobially talented. He can easily run mileage at 6:30s with a low heart rate.

PRs:

5000: 17:00

3200: 10:28

1600: 5:04

800: 2:19

400: 63.9 - 64.5 (always on relays)

Best 200 in practice is somewhere around 30 seconds. Might be able to crack 30.

For the last 1.5 years he has run good mileage, progressing nicely to sound 45 per week. Runs quality long runs, and we’ve done some form of 10 second hill sprints, flying 40s, hard 100s on the track, with full rest, probably 45 weeks of the year, plus strides on several other days. He thrives on tempo runs, progressions, and breaks down from intervals. He is muscular and strong in the lower body yet he can’t sprint faster to save his life. When he do hill sprints he says he “feels nothing”. He can’t get up to speed most likely. My next idea is just to extend the length of his “sprints” to 200s on the track (or 40 seconds up a hill) all out, with full rest to see if that works.

Any thoughts on how to break an athlete through? I’ve read and researched a lot and tried the things that have worked for others (and has led to breakthroughs for many of our other athletes) but not this one.

Han Solo wrote:

Athlete Bio

Age 17 male - running seriously for last 1.5 years. 5’5” / 135 lbs but very strong, muscular. Can deadlift 4 sets of 5 reps at 270 lbs. has solid running form, pretty efficient, very arrobially talented. He can easily run mileage at 6:30s with a low heart rate.

PRs:

5000: 17:00

3200: 10:28

1600: 5:04

800: 2:19

400: 63.9 - 64.5 (always on relays)

Best 200 in practice is somewhere around 30 seconds. Might be able to crack 30.

For the last 1.5 years he has run good mileage, progressing nicely to sound 45 per week. Runs quality long runs, and we’ve done some form of 10 second hill sprints, flying 40s, hard 100s on the track, with full rest, probably 45 weeks of the year, plus strides on several other days. He thrives on tempo runs, progressions, and breaks down from intervals. He is muscular and strong in the lower body yet he can’t sprint faster to save his life. When he do hill sprints he says he “feels nothing”. He can’t get up to speed most likely. My next idea is just to extend the length of his “sprints” to 200s on the track (or 40 seconds up a hill) all out, with full rest to see if that works.

Any thoughts on how to break an athlete through? I’ve read and researched a lot and tried the things that have worked for others (and has led to breakthroughs for many of our other athletes) but not this one.