Lucy Kabuu banned for two years - best excuses ever?

Everything I stated is completely true. These are all athletes you coached. I guess with Asbel you just "consulted" with him.

I did not say that you doped these athletes personally. Or that anybody you were currently coaching (except Anna Yin in 2014) was doping. I said that whatever instruction you were giving your athletes about doping not being effective does not seem to have stuck. As quite a number of athletes that you formerly coached (or consulted with) have been caught doping.

You can tell me to wash my mouth out with soap all you want. The truth of the matter is you have a lot of former athletes who have been caught doping.

Tell us again how much the problem is people (not at all associated with athletes in Kenya) believing that doping works and how it is you and your belief that doping does not work that is the solution...

I am not sure in what events taking morphine might be an advantage.

Yes, it hides pain.

But another affect is vaso-dilation.

That makes the arteries and veins increase in size, but lowers the blood pressure.

Some heart patients actually faint after taking nitro-glycerin (another vaso-dilator).

The drop in blood pressure leads to less profusion, the passing of blood through the

actual cell walls. Less waste products are picked up and less oxygen and glycogen is dropped off.

Hiding the pain can be helpful,

but lowering the transfer rate of waste and oxygen can't be.

Perhaps if the pain relief lasts for an hour and the vaso-dilation lasts for 10 minutes there is a period of enhanced performance, but I don't know.

Zee wrote:

Morphine is also a vasodilator...which is why it's given to ppl with an MI...it supplies more oxygen to the heart.

I was given morphine when I had a suspected MI, the reason was to stop the chest pain and nothing else.

Before 2010 there was not a doping problem in Kenya. At that time, nobody asked for some external help, and was not necessary to teach to the athletes they had to be clean believing in their training only.

For that reason, I never spoke about doping with Rita Jeptoo (who was always in the camp in Iten) or with Lucy Kabuu, that I met only for the workouts coming from their house.

The problem started in 2012, before OG in London, and I was the first speaking about it with the Chairman of AK, Isaiah Kiplagat. From that year, we started to see strange people, that nothing had to do with the athletics, going to the local road races trying to go in touch with many "coaches" (really not coaches, but people having a small group of athletes and working with some management) promising them that could have had big advantages taking something they could administrate, for the percentage of 15% (the same like managers) on their prizes.

One of them went to speak with Patrick Sang, asking him if he was a coach : this clearly shows that those people didn't know anything about athletics.

Instead to face the problem, Isaia Kiplagat decided to hide the problem itself, denying there was doping in the Country.

This behavior, and the lack of specific education, caused a big improvement of a bad mentality, in both runners of short and long distances, in some area (especially around Kapsabet). The 90% of the Kenyan positive come from Kapsabet or from some small village, and they used EPO for training more. Their results improved because of the increased training, not because of doping, and the increased training was possible, in their mind, only with strong supports, legal like supplements, or illegal like EPO (something that is absolutely not true : it's possible to have the same quantity and quality of training without taking anything, and athletes like Kipchoge clearly show this).

For shorter distances, instead, the blood doping had the goal to enhance the level of aerobic power for athletes who didn't want and din't like to use this type of training, based on fast long continuous run and long tests on track at high intensity, the only way for enhancing the aerobic support.

About all the athletes spending long time with me, nobody had any idea to take some substance for supporting his training : I speak about Shaheen, Nicholas Kemboi, James Kwalia and many other in the period of Qatar (till 2010), and about Florence Kiplagat, Moses Mosop, Sylvia Kibet, Caleb Ndiku, Abel Kirui later, till the current group including Ronald Kwemoi, his young brother Samwel Chepolei, and the HM runners Erick Kiptanui, Daniel Kipchumba, JosphatBoit and the WCh oif cross country Irene Cheptai.

With Chinese athletes the main problem was the lack of communications, and this was the main reason because I resigned after WCh of Beijing in 2015, also if my contract was till the end of 2016. The translators didn't know anything about athletics, and too many times I discovered their explanation was not correct, and the athletes were not able to understand what I explained. And in any case, nobody of the athletes of the National Team remaining with me from October 2013 till WCh of Beijing took anything (Anna Yin was aggregated to the National Team only at the end of July 2014 because won a race of steeple in 9'41" running alone in July, and I already explained several times she had unusual values during the first blood test we had for all the team in Duoba, and after this I asked for a doping control and she was banned).

You need to understand that there is difference between athletes who stay with the coach (also in the camp) with continuity for several years, and athletes that you see once every month giving them a program only. In the first case, I can put my hands on fire they are all clean, because I know them, their discipline, their mentality, their moral values, their character, and they know me and my assistant coach John Litei, who is a real hammer about discipline and loyalty.

I can confirm that, when we stay long time with some athlete, we can clean their mentality. They believe in training only, and have in front of them the examples of WR holder who never took anything. They look ahead, not behind their shoulders, where maybe there are doped athletes who run slower than them.

(And I continue to be curious about the "many other athletes" associated with me in the past, and caught for doping).

Coevett wrote:

Shouldn't she be charged with damaging the integrity of the sport or such?

Let's hope she does. That will open a precedent and then plenty of Kenyan athletes can charge you with damaging the integrity of their careers. Or such.

Renato Canova wrote:

(And I continue to be curious about the "many other athletes" associated with me in the past, and caught for doping).

Roberto Barbi

Giuliano Battocletti

Lydia Cheromoi

The first two when you were with FIDAL. Lydia in 2005 (long before there was any doping problem in Kenya, according to you). I'd be curious to know what your justification was for not starting your magical anti-doping education program with your athletes after she was charged.

Anyway, I am sure you will have justifications stating that these were not really your athletes or otherwise disclaiming responsibility or association with them. But the fact is that I have named nine athletes already who you coached who were convicted for doping. At some point this is much, much more than a coincidence. You have coached a lot of dopers.

Blacko wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Shouldn't she be charged with damaging the integrity of the sport or such?

Let's hope she does. That will open a precedent and then plenty of Kenyan athletes can charge you with damaging the integrity of their careers. Or such.

LOL, what a character you are.

I'm actually sticking up for the three Kenyan fellow athletes she tried to frame for her own positive test result.

And you think her trying to ruin the careers of three innocent athletes in front of the IAAF is the same as myself pointing out that the Rotich is the teammate of Bett and such like on this forum (which prides itself on being anti-doping)?

Maybe like El K, you think that even reporting on Kenyan doping busts here is racist and 'slander'?

And you're an American Kenyan elite runner who gets tested regularly?

Natural born talent, taking the place of an American 'slow white' runner?

Yeah, right.

*Rotich is the training partner of Bett.

caller out of B.S. wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

(And I continue to be curious about the "many other athletes" associated with me in the past, and caught for doping).

Roberto Barbi

Giuliano Battocletti

Lydia Cheromoi

The first two when you were with FIDAL. Lydia in 2005 (long before there was any doping problem in Kenya, according to you). I'd be curious to know what your justification was for not starting your magical anti-doping education program with your athletes after she was charged.

Anyway, I am sure you will have justifications stating that these were not really your athletes or otherwise disclaiming responsibility or association with them. But the fact is that I have named nine athletes already who you coached who were convicted for doping. At some point this is much, much more than a coincidence. You have coached a lot of dopers.

Wow!...I see Barbi on your list! He's a lifer - popped twice for rocket fuel in his long career! (2001 & 2008).

Fun tidbit: Barbi holds the distinction of being the first male in athletics banned for an EPO positive when he was glowing at the 2001 World Championships @ Edmonton.

Coevett wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

7.5/10 not quite Tyler Hamilton levels but worthy of a commendation. Just wait for Rek to turn up and say that the lucozade was spiked. Who's her coach/manager?

BTW Linford Christie was the face of Lucozade back in the 90s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buftBWN1Ft4

I wonder if Ramzi advertises healthy 'peas and carrots' in his home country?

I used to always have Lucozade when I was ill, always made me feel better quick. Then it disappeared. Maybe there was something to it.

I love your courage in entering the dragons den but you've got to post things where you disassociate yourself from these people and quick sudden improvements.

Rocket Fuel Rick wrote:

Wow!...I see Barbi on your list! He's a lifer - popped twice for rocket fuel in his long career! (2001 & 2008).

Fun tidbit: Barbi holds the distinction of being the first male in athletics banned for an EPO positive when he was glowing at the 2001 World Championships @ Edmonton.

It's not really my list. It is just athletes Canova was associated with. Canova became responsible for the Italian marathon team beginning in 1986 and was the FIDAL technical scientific director until 2002. He has claimed (repeatedly) credit for and knowledge of the training regimen of Gerlindo Baldin and Stafano Baldini. Barbi tested positive in 1996 (ephidrene) and 2001 (EPO). Between those times he repeatedly represented Italy in international championships. He admitted to using EPO for at least four years before his 2001 postive test. He again tested positive in 2008, this time for both ephedrine and EPO.

I am sure that Canova will claim that he had neither knowledge nor responsibility for Barbi's doping. I am not saying that he personally directed Barbi's doping. I am stating that when you have repeatedly been the coach and/or director of athletes who have tested positive for doping, you do not get to claim that you have never had anything at all to do with doping. When you claim that you can give your athletes the mindset that they don't need to dope, then you don't get to ignore that former athletes go on to dope.

I have no even mentioned the Qatari athletes who tested positive during the time Renato was in charge there. This is all public record. Why anybody would give any credence at all to anything this man has to say about doping is beyond me.

Do you coach any other athletes too stupid to realize they are using narcotics agai st their will?

caller out of B.S. wrote:

Why anybody would give any credence at all to anything this man has to say about doping is beyond me.

I'm guessing there are a lot of things beyond you, things my ten year old could grasp.

If he's not personally involved in any of his athlete's doping, how would he know if they were involved in any doping? He could easily think that their improvement and race times were the results of his training program & coaching.

Coaches aren't with these athletes 24/7...they have no idea what they're doing half the time. A lot of these athletes party and drink and the coaches have no idea what they're doing on their personal time. How are they going to know if any of their athletes are doping unless someone drops a dime and snitches on the athletes, or the coach catches them with the PEDs.

When I was the Technical Scientific Director of FIDAL, we started seminars (as Federation) against doping. However, we had also strange cases, for example the case of Andrea Longo, who was positive for nandrolone few days before WCh in Edmonton, for taking aminoacids from one of the top Company in the World (he had with that Company an official contract as sponsor) that were contaminated. The Italian Federation spent a lot of money for buying the same kind of aminoacids in several different Countries, sent all the boxes with the substance to the lab of Koln directed by the IAAF responsible of antidoping, and the final result was that 22% of all the aminoacids contained in small percentage nandrolone. Andrea Longo was banned for 2 years, but IAAF recognized his "bona fide" and gave him an extra time of two weeks for running under the limit for WCh 2003. Andrea Longo made an allegation against the Company, and won in the Court.

About Barbi, he was in training at home, and never partecipated in some official Training Camp of the Federation.

About Lydia Cheromei, she was banned for a medicine against sterility, who was also doping. But she had her first baby 6 months after the test, so it's easy to see that the medicine was not for enhancing her performance. Her problem was she didn't communicate IAAF the medicine, because in her mind she already was not an athlete, but a person with a personal goal to achieve, and only after being banned for two years she was interested to clean her name. Her brother, Joseph, prepared all the medical documents of the case, but AK didn't push the case with the IAAF for some deficit in the procedure. At the end, one of the cleanest athletes ever could not run in her life any Major, and, after winning World Junior Championships in 1991, last year (27 years later) was still able to run the Marathon in 2:22.

If you are the technical director of some Country, or of some Management, and are not in continuous contact with the athletes, the only thing you can do is to organize some seminar explaining which are the right values, the risks of doping, and the rules of the antidoping, but you can't know what they do at home.

Instead, when you are with YOUR athletes in training, the situation changes, because you are not in touch as an epidode, but you live with them for long time, and have the opportunity to influence their education.

So, if you put all the name of doped athletes that sometime spoke with me in a list, your list can be still longer, but absolutely stupid for demonstrating something.

Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:

If he's not personally involved in any of his athlete's doping, how would he know if they were involved in any doping? He could easily think that their improvement and race times were the results of his training program & coaching.

Coaches aren't with these athletes 24/7...they have no idea what they're doing half the time. A lot of these athletes party and drink and the coaches have no idea what they're doing on their personal time. How are they going to know if any of their athletes are doping unless someone drops a dime and snitches on the athletes, or the coach catches them with the PEDs.

With most coaches I would absolutely 100% agree with these observations. But Renato has gone on record and being 100% absolutely sure that none of his athletes have ever doped and that he knows it for a fact. So this is just holding him to his own standard.

Trust me Renato, athletes like Longo know that these supplements are laced with PEDs, that's why they take them. And the excuse if they ever get caught is "I was just taking supplements." Just nonsense, just like the passionate kissing and tainted steaks excuses.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Trust me Renato, athletes like Longo know that these supplements are laced with PEDs, that's why they take them. And the excuse if they ever get caught is "I was just taking supplements." Just nonsense, just like the passionate kissing and tainted steaks excuses.

better than getting an androgel rub down with happy ending from your dad...that sh*t is pretty sick