Real Low Mileage performers.

thank you Jim for posting

what sort of running, if any, are you doing now?

Thanks for the questions.

In high school, I did not run as a freshmen. I played basketball, and ran 6:48 for the mile in gym class.

As a sophomore, Coach John Kurtz asked me again to go out for the team during the first week of classes. I had said no as a freshmen. I looked up, and said, "OK, I will give it a try." If Coach would not have asked, I never would have gone out for the team. In gym class the next day, I ran 5:45 for the mile.

2 miles on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, and first race at the Warren Invite - 19:08 for 3 miles. 1 week later at Newton Park in Glen Ellyn (Du Page invite), 17:28 for 27th in the sophomore race. I remember watching the 25th person go up and receive his medal, as the top 25 were awarded medals. Wonder where that person is today? Ran fast enough to have coach move me up to Varsity three days later against our arch rival, Lake Park HS. Finished 4th in 16:48. Ended up at the Conference meet running 15:41 for 3rd, and in the track season, 9:21.7 for two-miles. Sounds good, but Tom Graves of Carl Sandburg HS ran 9:00, also a sophomore. We also had Todd and Mark McCalister of Deerfield (both ran 4:08 in HS), John Sullivan (poster on this site,and 4:09), Tom Wutcke (sure I spelled his name incorrectly) of DeKalb,and Don Volkey of Belvidere in the same class. Craig Hoffman and Alvin Strunk of York could be included in this class, but they were from York, the "empire" down the road 3 miles, and the competition, so let's leave them off :) .

Tom came from Southern Indiana when his dad took a new job in Chicago. He swam in the winter, so did not run indoor track. He won state as a junior in CC and 2 mile, running 14:08 and 8:50 yards. 2nd in the mile in 4:08. As a senior, he won State cross in 13:56.6 and track mile and two-mile on a 90 degree day. I was 2nd in CC both times (14:16 and 14:00) and track as a junior (9:00.5 yards). Won the 880 as a senior (1:50.2y, fastest time in the country), and the mile at the International Prep invite (4:06.2).

What was interesting is that as freshen in college, Tom was 13th and I was 15th, with Rudy Chapa between us (I think Rudy just lost the 10k High school record to Galen). Rudy was a junior at Oregon. As sophomores, I was 23rd and Tom 25th, first time I had ever placed ahead of him. We raced one more time over 1500 meters in Florida in 1984. Tom still leads, 4-2 in career wins against each other. His son Griff ran 4:20 something as a freshmen, and they now live in Virginia.

Mileage in HS, was between 35 and 45 a week, and that was with me running in the morning 5 days a week, 2 miles each day. So running 25-35 of actual training and racing.

Best thing about HS, was the friendships and team feeling of being together as a group. Fenton had never won the conference title, and our team won when I was a junior. We did not send a team to state, but I was the first individual to go. The daily challenge of being part of a group, and getting better, made this a great time.

js

Jim, you say your longest run ever was under 2 hours. Have you ever raced at 8K or above on any regular basis?

Are you racing or running at all now?

Thanks.

For the longer races, I ran 28:20 for 10k at the US championships for cross-country in 1981, but I would not be surprised that if the course was off in San Francisco. 29:03 on the roads in South Bend. 22:30 for 8k to win the Shamrock Shuffle in Chicago in 1988, and 23:05 to win the the Notre Dame invite 8k in 1998 at age 38.... but with a last mile of 4:23, I am sure the course was short.

Best time on the track for 5k was 13:15.86 at age 34, and 13:24 at age 36.

For now, I get training in over a 2-week period of time, and then a calf muscle tightens up. Ran the 5k at Charleston, WV event last week Saturday in 19:08, and had run 1 day in the last 10 before the race. Best part was that I had given a speech to Charleston Catholic HS boys and girls teams the day before, and I caught one of their top runners with a 1/2 mile to go, and out kicked him: You can't let someone you spoke to the day before, beat you! Then as soon as we are in the shoot, he says to the guy in front of me, "Spivey out kicked me," and I look up, and it is their team captain. He finished right ahead of me. If only I had know.....

js

hey jim i wonder what a normal mileage week looked like for you in your prime time? can you give us some of your examples?

Like how much hard work did you do in those normal weeks?

First to clarify - I changed coaches in March of 1987: Mike Durkin and Ken Popejoy. Ken now has sons competing for Notre Dame and U of Illinois. Mike wrote all the training, and Ken timed me from 1987-1993. The last 4 years, Ken would come to the track about once every two weeks. They were both attorneys, and very busy. I remember in 1993, Ken did over 1000 real estate closings, trained with me, and still traveled to Stuttgard with me for the World Championships where I was 5th in the 1500m.

1987: Week ending / mileage / notable race

May 9 / 73.0

May 16 / 60 3:59.3 Pepsi

May 23 / 70

May 30 / 60 3:37.49 Jenner

June 6 / 66 1:48.4 Pre

June 13 / 63 1:49.0 Boston

June 20 / 40 sick 3 days

June 27 / 52 3:43.66 USATF's, 1st (52.2 last 400)

July 4 / 45 3:51.91 Dream Mile Oslo, 2nd

July 11 / 62

July 18 / 38 3:55.62 Barcelona, 4th

July 25 / 74

Aug 1 / 73

Aug 8 / 66

Aug 15 / 45 3:47.46 1500m - Pan Am Games, 2nd

Aug 22 / 44 3:34.37 Zurich, 3rd

Aug 29 / 53 3:39.0 part of 4x1500m team in Dublin, 2nd fastest time by USA (3:43, 3:39, 3:46, 3:39.0)

Sept 6 / 46 3:38.82, World Champs Bronze medal, Rome

Sept 14 / 36 3:36.8 Brussles, Grand Prix final, 2nd

Sept 19 / 38 4:52.44 2000m Amerian Record, Lausanne

In comparison: 1993

April 3 / 63

April 10 / 49

April 17 / 77

April 24 / 62 13:58 5000m 1st Drake Relays

May 1 / 63 Treadmill test, 85.2 Sustainable max vo2 and highest vo2 of my career, 88.3

May 8 / 64 3:40.31 Indianapolis

May 15 / 57

May 22 / 55

May 29 / 52 3:41.57 Jenner, 3rd

June 5 / 63 13:25.92 5000m Pre, 3rd

June 11 / 54

June 19 / 45 USATF Oregon, 3:42.92 3rd

June 26 / 59 3:54.98 Indianapolis 3rd

July 3 / 50 3:36.45 Lille, 2nd

July 10 / 50 3:52.37 Oslo Dream mile 4th

July 17 / 60

July 24 / 56

July 31 / 56 3:39.38 Luxemburg, 1st

Aug 7 / 52 7:37.07 3000m Colonge, 3rd PR

Aug 14 / 48

Aug 21 / 44 3:37.41 World champs, 5th (Heat, semi and final)

Aug 28 / 40 3:54.78 Berlin

Sept 4 / 57 3:34.91 Reiti

Sept 11 / 46 3:36.28 Grand Prix final, London, 6th

For training, the building phase was from when Indoor track ended (March 1) through June 1. Three months. I would put in workouts three times a week. Either M-R-Sat with a long run on Sunday, or M-W-Sat and a long run on Sunday. Long runs were 80-90 minutes. Pace for the long runs: From my logs: 6:36; 6:45; 6:28; 6:50; 6:48

track workouts were based upon doing a lot of intervals, with short rest, slow. Examples:

3.24.91: 800-600-800, 800, 800-600-800 with 200 rest between intervals, and 400-600 rest between sets. 2:15 pace for the 800's, with a 30 m's morning run, 14.5 miles for the day.

4.20.91: 2x150(50)[400] 1x400 :67(200) 2x200(200) :31 1x400 :66 (400) 6x200(200) 30 [400] 1x250 41 (150) 1x400 :61 (200) 2x250(150) 40

5.14.91: 4x150(50)[400] 4x800(800) 1:58 pace

5.16.91: 6x250(150) :42 [400] 4x400(200) 62[400] 5x250(150) :42 [400] 2x400(200) :61

5.11.87: 5x150(50)[400] 3x400(200) 61 [400] 2x400(200) 60 [400] 3x400(200) 59 [400] 6x1500(50)[400] 3x200(200) :30

Week of 6.26-7.2 of 1988

Saturday - 90 m's (m=minutes)

Sunday - 3.5 am / 2 miles wu,10x100

4x150(50)[400]

6x250(150)35,35, 32, 35, 35, 32 [400]

2x400(200) 56, 56 [600]

7x200(100) 32, 32, 31, 33, 32, 30, 32 [400]

3x150(50)

6x100, mile wd (13.0 miles for the day)

Monday: 3 miles am / 4 miles pm and strides

Tuesday: 3 miles am/ 4.5 miles pm and 10x100

Wednesday: 2 miles warm-up, 10x100

3x150(50)[200]

6x200(100) :34 [400]

2x400(400) 55, 56 [600]

6x200(100) ran :30 on the grass, and jogged :30 slow

jog 300 slow

10x100

mile wd (9 miles for the day)

Thursday: 2 miles am / massage / 4.5 miles, 10x100 pulse 48 AM

Friday: Flight to Oslo, 810am

33 mins with John Walker, New Zealand, 13x100

Saturday: Oslo Dream mile, 3:50.57 6th place

splits 58.2-1:56.7-2:55.0-55.5 last 400

60.5 miles for the week

I think I would say, when I ran on the track, I put in a lot of milage. For my recovery days, I ran 3-4 miles in the morning and 35-45 minutes in the afternoon.

Hoped that answered your question. All of the above info was taken from my logs.

js

I must note my key:

(xxx) is rest between intervals

[xxx] is rest between sets

So, 6x150(50)[400] is running 150 meters fresh (relaxed pace) and jogging 50 meters slow between each interval. Then 400 meter slow between sets. This seems like a sissy set, but it is a mile of intervals. As you are probably running at 4:40-4:50 mile pace for the 150's (35 second 200 pace), it is a great vo2 building workout set.

js

I think low mileage is ok for any distance as long as there is a weekly long run and race specific speed workouts on a weekly basis. Also, as Jim noted, 10x100 is useful workout.

Thank you, Jim Spivey! This thread is so cool! :)

At the bell in 92, I thought you were gonna do 'em! :)

Forgive my ignorance, Jim, but when you were in 3:31 shape, how was your 800m?

1988

I ran 1:47.95 to win the 800m at the Mid-American Classic at N. Central college in Naperville, Illinois: 26.0-53.2-1:20.9-27.0. That was my fastest 800m of the year. Race was on July 9.

Of note, on July 30th in 89 degree heat and 77% humidity, ran this workout:

2 miles AM / 2 miles warm-up and 10x100

3x150(50)[400]

4x200(100) 32 to 33 [600]

1x800 1:53.1 (56.5-56.6)

jog 400

3x250(150) :42 [400]

1x800 1:51.1

jog 400

4x200(100) 34, 33, 31, 32

10x100

mile warm-down

I was training at 56 pace, and was able to string two of these together for this workout. After 1990, we switched this workout to 2x800(5 mins rest, jogging), as that is when your lactic acid peaks after a hard interval (Dr. Martin again). When you jump off the treadmill, lactic acid was usually 107-115%. 5 minutes post treadmill test, Dr. Dave would take blood. At one point in my testing, it was as high as 178%. Took 5 minutes between 800's to maximize how I would feel. Note this also applied for building vo2 workouts in the winter / early spring: 2x2 miles or 3x2 miles or 3x1.5 miles, all with 5 mins slow jog between.

Aug 31: Koblenz, W. Germany

54.5 - 1:51.0- 2:49.0 - 42.0 = 3:31.01

Lewis Johnson of TV sports interviewing fame was the rabbit through 800m. Ken Washington the rabbit for the next 200. He slowed at the 1k mark, and I yelled: "Ken! go faster!" He took 3 steps, and moved out to lane 4.

Seb Coe yelled at me with 400m to go, from the infield (he had won the 800m that day in 1:43.0) - "Jim! Just relax!" I did, and ran 56 for my last 400m. I knew he had run at this pace, and listend to him, that day.

js

HA HA......GREAT contributions Jim!! Thanks so much. ( I mentioned your name, and before people could tell me I was full of crap about your low-mileage weeks, you came on here and backed up what I claimed about you)

Too bad "trackhead" is still not around. He could come here on this thread and tell Jim that he never maxamized his potential, or that he must be lieing and not counting his warm-up miles, or that Jim must have secretly been a swimmer or something as a child.

SOME PEOPLE JUST THRIVE AND EXCEL OFF OF LOWER MILEAGE PROTOCOLS.......PERIOD! HIGH MILEAGE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.

Finally, we have an all-time great like Jim Spivey (who was not only AR holder at the 1500, but brilliant at 3k, 5k and beyond) telling it like it is: different programs work for different people, and sometimes a lower mileage program (around 40-55 miles a week) works best for some. Many, many all-time greats have proven this to be true, Jim is not the only one.

So Lydiard lovers: Arthur's way is NOT the only way. That may be hard to swallow for you, but it's true.

bump

No. Someone like Trackhead would most likely not come on and tell Jim Spivey he didn't run up to his potential or is lying about his miles. I certainly wouldn't. I won't diagree that some people do just fine on lower mileage or do even better than they'd do on higher miles. I wouldn't say, as a Lydiard lover, that Arthur's got the only way.

I would say that more people get close to their best potential off of more mileage than they do off of lower mileage. If you're getting the sort of results a Jim Spivey or Doug Padilla gets you probably don't want to change and do more. But MOST people who run 50-60 miles a week will run faster if they if they run a lot more. Want to create a list of successful low mileage performers and compare it for length with a list of successful high mileage performers?

There is a local triathlete in Tulsa, OK where I live who ran a 14:39 last month and he runs 25-40/wk. He cross-trains a lot and ran a 29:04 10k in college though. I personally ran a 15:38 at the Kansas Relays this year off 20mpw and some biking. My shins haven't allowed me to go over 35mpw in 3-4 years.

I biked 20-50 miles 4-6x per week. 3x/wk after the bike ride I would do a 5mi tempo run starting around 6:15 pace and work down to 5:10 or so the last mile. Then I'd do drills and 10x100m strides. 15:38 isn't a world class time by any stretch, but it was a PR for me.

Thanks a lot for posting, Jim! It was great to hear about some of your training and racing experiences.

i agree on you completely about the high mileage. Some peopel just always seem to ge injurred, or have to bussy lives. For me the mst important thing is to improve year after year and balance is a key in that to. Last year i didtn got injurred.And even if i only ran 3 - 4 days a week i kept on progressing(not world class level, but i admited that that is only for few amongst us ;-) ).

and indeed jim tanks to this contributions, not to many people who where at world clss talk about what they did.Especially not over here. Again i eally appreciate it. Also nice to ee your still keeping you healthy ive heard other strry's of sportsman afte their carreer eating, drinking,smoking themselfs to their grave. For me a sub 20 minute 5000 meter is a real benchmark of top fitness.(only one of the elements).

Thats what i am striving to s well. Keeping able to do sports till late age. With running keeping me fit for other sport or just for a living. That without needing to log 100's of miles every month.

The problem is, I don't remember it hurting so much going through the 2 mile mark of a 19:08 5k!

On the mileage side, I added every aspect of a run to my mileage: warm-up, 10x100, workout, 10x100, warm-down.

I think the one thing that is overlooked here, is that, do you believe in your training. I cannot understate how important that fact is. If an athelte the night before a big race is sitting at the same table for dinner, and states that he ran 1:46 in practice, or 4x400 in 52, and you know your fastest 400 has been 53.8, you can either fold the cards, or say to yourself: "Have I done what my coach has asked of me, with the talents I have been given?" If yes, it does not matter what they did.

In 1996, at age 36, I knew that there were other people on the line of the finals in the Olympic trials 5k who had trained harder, younger, fresher legs, better races this spring, less injuries .... but I also knew that they doubted their fitness. They want every workout, from #1 to #50 leading up to the Trials, to be perfect. Each one faster than the last. If you ran 59.3 on Monday, you had better run 59.1 on Friday and feel better. I knew that I had missed a week here and another week there in the build-up. I had overtrained, and my coach had me take 2 days off completely (talk about withdrawal symptoms!). I had rabbited a race in South Bend in 8:38, and came off the track all smiles. When I toed the line in Atlanta, I knew that my training was complete for that race, at that time. Two weeks later in Stockholm, my coach and I thought I could run 13:25, getting the OLY qualifier. The night before the race, Mike (my coach) Durkin called me, and said, he had been looking at my training, and thought I could run 13:21. How did I improve 4 seconds in 3 days?!!!!! I asked. He said this, that... but my goal was under 13:29.00, the standard.

I ran 13:24, and was conservative the last 400, to make sure I was going to get the time. When I spoke to Mike that night from Stockholm, he asked: "what was your time with a lap to go?" 12:21 I said.. .He said: "You couldn't run 60 seconds for your last 400 meters and prove me right?!"

I ran 34-29 for my last 400, so what do you think.... :)

js

one question though just out of curiousity when you where in 1:48 shape what speed where you doeing your vo2max reps in teh winter how did you build them.Jut wondering how that compares to your average sporting fitness man(me). :-)

for record at this moment i am in shape and do 2 x 3 km in 10:30(3:30 km) been fitter before.

I recently ran a 16:22 5k on 2 weeks of running about 12 miles a week... and this is after taking 7 months off...