KATELYN TUOHY - 16:07 @ OCEAN STATE

To be fair, when Jakob was tearing it up this summer, Americans on Letsrun went wild and were stunned by his success. Most people understand that Tuohy is doing is historic for a young high schooler. I mean, 15:37 as a Soph is an amazing result. No doubt about it. I agree, I don't think we need to jump to conclusions about her professional success yet, but to try and tear her down by belittling her performances (and for some reason, generalizing Americans in the process) is kind of rough. I'm all for objective comparisons, but can you do it without a crazy amount of distracting anti-American bias? Relax dude

Run Down wrote:

Has any HS girl ever broken 16 in a XC 5k before? I guess she's going to be the first.

Yes, a Japanese high school girl ran 15:58 a few years ago at Fukuoka XC.

As remarkable as her times are, she has not shown superlative top end, near or under 2:00 800 m, speed yet to be a medal contender in track at the world stage-even among juniors. She seems to have a very high VO2 max and biomechanical efficiency at distances and could be another Paula Radcliffe eventually. I hear she does very high mileage so her progress may plateau or level out soon. Other phenoms like Ryan and Lindgren seemed probably maxed out on performance at a fairly early age for that reason. In contrast, Molly Huddle improved much after college by increasing her mileage then.

J.T. wrote:

Prophetic statements wrote:

Maybe some day she'll be required to.

Tuohy’s performance is proof that there should not be separate boy and girl categories. That arbitrary separation was put in place by the patriarchy in order to keep women down.

There should only be one category. Peoplekind.

I'll take the likely troll bait.

Tuohy is such an outlier, clearly an amazing runner, that'd it'd be unfair to her to not get the glory of crushing the girls field, and would relegate girls running to most of the time never making Varsity. Lookit any of the NxN caliber teams that run - hell, Loudouns fr/so boys placed their scoring fr/so 5 ahead of their #1 Varsity girl this weekend.

Running as "people" would, however, remove the problem of 'boys who want to be girls (which is fine) but then want to compete as girls (which is unfair to cis-girls ).'

Peoplekind wrote:

J.T. wrote:

Tuohy’s performance is proof that there should not be separate boy and girl categories. That arbitrary separation was put in place by the patriarchy in order to keep women down.

There should only be one category. Peoplekind.

I'll take the likely troll bait.

Tuohy is such an outlier, clearly an amazing runner, that'd it'd be unfair to her to not get the glory of crushing the girls field, and would relegate girls running to most of the time never making Varsity. Lookit any of the NxN caliber teams that run - hell, Loudouns fr/so boys placed their scoring fr/so 5 ahead of their #1 Varsity girl this weekend.

Running as "people" would, however, remove the problem of 'boys who want to be girls (which is fine) but then want to compete as girls (which is unfair to cis-girls ).'

"Boys who want to be girls" is fine with you? It strikes me as a profoundly tragic desire and one that can never be fulfilled, despite all efforts to paper such desire over with false pronouns, and, more catastrophically, with hormones or surgery.

She is a tremendous talent.

The fact that she doesn’t have a great 800 PR is more a result of not racing any serious 800’s. I would guess that she could run pretty fast if it was important.

I broke 9:00 for 2 miles on a flat indoor track, at the time my mile PR was 4:33 done outdoors. Pretty sure I was better than a 4:33 miler at the time.

This kid is a stud, no doubt about it.

Duane wrote:

ok you lazy pos.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8970136

Hey, that was uncalled for Mr. Know-it-all. The dude asked as everyone on here brings up the one out of 100 guesses that they got right. pos? That was mean you big mean bully!!!!!!! Eat poo:):):):)

Hp wrote:

She is a tremendous talent.

The fact that she doesn’t have a great 800 PR is more a result of not racing any serious 800’s. I would guess that she could run pretty fast if it was important.

I broke 9:00 for 2 miles on a flat indoor track, at the time my mile PR was 4:33 done outdoors. Pretty sure I was better than a 4:33 miler at the time.

This kid is a stud, no doubt about it.

no, you didn't break 9:00 for 2 miles. nice try. i broke 8:50 with a mile pr of 4:34. see what us anonymous people can do.

there seems to be an attitude issue in these forums, in this case a snarky assumption that I completely made something up without any effort to find my prior post. So I will stand with the lazy pos remark.

to date her all out 800's are around 2:09 I think - so far I do not see the raw speed to get that below ~2:06 even if that was the focus.

Hp wrote:

This kid is a stud, no doubt about it.

Well then, that's not fair to the girls.

Peoplekind wrote:

J.T. wrote:

Tuohy’s performance is proof that there should not be separate boy and girl categories. That arbitrary separation was put in place by the patriarchy in order to keep women down.

There should only be one category. Peoplekind.

I'll take the likely troll bait.

Tuohy is such an outlier, clearly an amazing runner, that'd it'd be unfair to her to not get the glory of crushing the girls field, and would relegate girls running to most of the time never making Varsity. Lookit any of the NxN caliber teams that run - hell, Loudouns fr/so boys placed their scoring fr/so 5 ahead of their #1 Varsity girl this weekend.

Running as "people" would, however, remove the problem of 'boys who want to be girls (which is fine) but then want to compete as girls (which is unfair to cis-girls ).'

She is an outlier, because girls have been told that they are too slow to compete against boys.

Hasay was the inspiration for Cain, Cain was the inspiration for Efraimson, who was the the inspiration for Rainsberger/Murphy/Aragon, who then inspired Oakley. Now we have Tuohy.

If girls ran against boys and believed that they could compete, they would be much better.

Cain/Efraimson/Rainsberger/Murphy... is not coincidental. It’s very much psychological. Who knows how many more Tuohys are out there.

Show me a level at which elite women can compete in running events against elite men. It just does not exist. Elite women can compete against a large number of men, but just not the best. Even the examples of Cain, and now Tuohy would lose to the best high school boys. Leave the races separate. On occasion, have the elite women run against men at a comparable or slightly higher level.

Duane wrote:

Show me a level at which elite women can compete in running events against elite men. It just does not exist. Elite women can compete against a large number of men, but just not the best. Even the examples of Cain, and now Tuohy would lose to the best high school boys. Leave the races separate. On occasion, have the elite women run against men at a comparable or slightly higher level.

That's what they said about women going to Universities, becoming doctors or CEOs of large public companies.

IAAF said it. Testosterone levels does not affect performance in the 100, 200, 5000 or 10,000.

Duane wrote:

Show me a level at which elite women can compete in running events against elite men. It just does not exist. Elite women can compete against a large number of men, but just not the best. Even the examples of Cain, and now Tuohy would lose to the best high school boys. Leave the races separate. On occasion, have the elite women run against men at a comparable or slightly higher level.

With your line of thinking, Black men would not be allowed to run the marathon against white men.

say what? There have been world bests of different races over the years, in the sprints as well as the distances, no?

Duane wrote:

say what? There have been world bests of different races over the years, in the sprints as well as the distances, no?

? You can't go back in time. There was a time when all the Olympic winners were white

Look at this list. The first non black marathoner is ranked 69th

pH. wrote:

Hp wrote:

She is a tremendous talent.

The fact that she doesn’t have a great 800 PR is more a result of not racing any serious 800’s. I would guess that she could run pretty fast if it was important.

I broke 9:00 for 2 miles on a flat indoor track, at the time my mile PR was 4:33 done outdoors. Pretty sure I was better than a 4:33 miler at the time.

This kid is a stud, no doubt about it.

no, you didn't break 9:00 for 2 miles. nice try. i broke 8:50 with a mile pr of 4:34. see what us anonymous people can do.

Yea, very funny.

This is not about me, but yea, 8:56 (4:29, 4:27, 2nd to Peter Crooke)at Coast Guard Acad. in New London, CT. Long time ago.

survey says wrote:

Run Down wrote:

Has any HS girl ever broken 16 in a XC 5k before? I guess she's going to be the first.

Yes, a Japanese high school girl ran 15:58 a few years ago at Fukuoka XC.

I should have stated I was referring to American HS girls. Thank you for the clarification though.