Thoughts on Mondo’s AMERICAN pole vault record?

Also I will actually say that the IAAF rules actually round up thousandths. So if you run 9.582 for 100m you'll be given 9.59.

Such as this example:

https://mobile.twitter.com/iaaforg/status/368276623835299840

I want to say that I have no problem with Duplantis as an athlete or for applying for the American Record.

I am happy for his achievements.

My issue is with what is considered a national record.

Even in a Diamond League event they list the nationality of each athlete. And only one nationality is listed.

Whatever country a person is competing for at any given time should be the only national record they could get for that performance.

So my issue is with the rules.

Not allowed to compete wrote:

Welcome to the world of the USATF. Arbitrary decisions are par for their short-bus courses.

This Lagat "decision" is similar in arbitrariness to the PattiSue Plumer decision. PattiSue ran the first sub 15 minute 5k for women. But the USATF braintrust decreed that women were incapable of breaking 15 minutes, so they took exception to her running better than 14:59.994 and rounded up to fix "the problem". That was the word on the track about her run. Two sub 15 clock readings. Stanford University has her at the proper 14:59.99.

http://running.stanford.edu/coach.html

May be one of the dumbest posts ever here. And that's saying a lot.

I do think its a little odd that the same jump creates both the Swedish and American records. I'm not sure though that the handling of Lagat's AR is a precedent at USATF - it's not clear that the records committee enunciated a policy at that time. If it is a precedent, then Mondo shouldn't get the AR. If you're competing for another country it shouldn't count in the US provides a basis for consistency going forward.

notrump wrote:

I do think its a little odd that the same jump creates both the Swedish and American records. I'm not sure though that the handling of Lagat's AR is a precedent at USATF - it's not clear that the records committee enunciated a policy at that time. If it is a precedent, then Mondo shouldn't get the AR. If you're competing for another country it shouldn't count in the US provides a basis for consistency going forward.

Why is it odd? He has dual citizenship. Lagat was in the process of switching countries as an athlete. Mondo has had dual citizenship since birth. He's an American citizen. He jumped higher than any other American pole vaulter. He should have the record. Depending on whether his record gets ratified or not, if USATF has no problem with Mondo representing Sweden, then you shouldn't either.

USATF'ed wrote:

Lagat was USATF'ed. The USATF refused to allow him to compete as an American after he became a citizen. They told him he would have to run for Kenya to compete in the 2004 Olympics. Kenya did not understand this until after the Olympics. and Kenya decided to let Lagat keep the medal he won since he was not competing for the US. An absolute clusterf*ck created by the USATF.

It wasn't USATF's decision, IAAF sets the rules about when you are eligible to represent a different country.

NATIONAL RECORDS wrote:

That is not how it worked out for USC. They set the indoor 400m relay WR running with four US citizens. But because Rai Benjamin trained as a 15 year old, for a few months, with Antigua, and he filed months before the paperwork declaring he was competing for the USA and not Antigua, the claim by the USATF was that it was not a WR. Therefore, the WR was set in the same race was set by the LOSING team.

That had ZERO to do with USATF, that was an IAAF decision.

Under the current rules, that will become the new American Record in the 4x400.

notrump wrote:

I do think its a little odd that the same jump creates both the Swedish and American records. I'm not sure though that the handling of Lagat's AR is a precedent at USATF - it's not clear that the records committee enunciated a policy at that time. If it is a precedent, then Mondo shouldn't get the AR. If you're competing for another country it shouldn't count in the US provides a basis for consistency going forward.

The precedent was set last year when the records committee approved Mondo's marks as the American Junior Record. They don't have to enunciate a policy... it's in the rule book which is a free PDF on the USATF website.

I am not sure why Lagat's 2004 mark was not ratified, but I will find out at some point. It could have been a paperwork issue, they typically need a zero control test and various other things that are kind of difficult to get if a mark is not considered until some time later.

In the case of Duplantis and Kallur, the IAAF already has (or will be) approving them as world records, so there really isn't any paperwork needed.

The US trials are a big risk, even for the biggest star. If you are sick the given day you do not make the Olympics.

ex-runner wrote:

They can enforce any rules they want. They can change and make them up as they see fit.

They decide what their entry standards for major champs are regardless of what the IAAF or IOC sets, they can choose their team, choose who runs for them, what they consider a record, what they consider as an accepted performance, who they invite to the trials.

It's all their own thing. Can do what they want. They make the rules for USA.

If I were Duplantis I'd choose to compete for Sweden also. Far less hassle.

This is not really true. It is true that USATF has a lot of discretion. It is not true that it extends to any rules they want. Just to take the example you used, they cannot set a Trials A standard that is faster than the Olympic or World Championship standard. They are constrained by the Ted Stevens ASA and by the IAAF or IOC standards.

I think the rule needs to be changed.

Plus the meet or athlete has to apply for certain records, but not others. See rule below.

So assuming the European champs are sanctioned as a Permit meet by the IAAF Mondo doesn't have to apply for the record and gets it whether he wants it or not. But if he vaulted 6.05 at the Louisiana high school champs or even probably something like Mt. Sac (not sure if that is an IAAF permit meet) he wouldn't get the record as it is not an IAAF permit meet and he'd have to apply for the record.

USATF Rule 261:

Rule 261

When an Open or Junior Men's or Women's national track and field record has been

equaled or bettered in a USA National Championship, Olympic Trials, or other meet

conducted by USATF, or in the Olympic Games, IAAF World Championship, IAAF

World Cup, or other meet conducted by the IAAF or sanctioned as a Permit meet by the

IAAF, that record may be ratified based on the official results of the meet without the

need for a formal record application, pending the outcome of doping control testing.

However, an application and/or other appropriate documentation shall be required by the

Records Committee whenever it has received information creating some reasonable

doubt as to the correctness of the official result

***

Star wrote:

I want to say that I have no problem with Duplantis as an athlete or for applying for the American Record.

I am happy for his achievements.

My issue is with what is considered a national record.

Even in a Diamond League event they list the nationality of each athlete. And only one nationality is listed.

Whatever country a person is competing for at any given time should be the only national record they could get for that performance.

So my issue is with the rules.

But what about athletes competing for two countries at the same time? For example for Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

polevaultpower wrote:

The precedent was set last year when the records committee approved Mondo's marks as the American Junior Record. They don't have to enunciate a policy... it's in the rule book which is a free PDF on the USATF website.

I am not sure why Lagat's 2004 mark was not ratified, but I will find out at some point. It could have been a paperwork issue, they typically need a zero control test and various other things that are kind of difficult to get if a mark is not considered until some time later.

In the case of Duplantis and Kallur, the IAAF already has (or will be) approving them as world records, so there really isn't any paperwork needed.

Maybe you can help out with this: Why is this even done by a committee anyway? Frankly this should be an administrative task with a checklist, which is perfect for an employee. Check all the boxes, you get the record. Don't check all the boxes, you don't qualify. I don't see a need for voting...

polevaultpower wrote:

The precedent was set last year when the records committee approved Mondo's marks as the American Junior Record. They don't have to enunciate a policy... it's in the rule book which is a free PDF on the USATF website.

I am not sure why Lagat's 2004 mark was not ratified, but I will find out at some point. It could have been a paperwork issue, they typically need a zero control test and various other things that are kind of difficult to get if a mark is not considered until some time later.

America is funny:

1. Your pole vault record was just broken by a child.

2. Your record-keeping rules were apparently written by a child.

As for Lagat, great question!

idiocracy wrote:

polevaultpower wrote:

The precedent was set last year when the records committee approved Mondo's marks as the American Junior Record. They don't have to enunciate a policy... it's in the rule book which is a free PDF on the USATF website.

I am not sure why Lagat's 2004 mark was not ratified, but I will find out at some point. It could have been a paperwork issue, they typically need a zero control test and various other things that are kind of difficult to get if a mark is not considered until some time later.

America is funny:

1. Your pole vault record was just broken by a child.

2. Your record-keeping rules were apparently written by a child.

As for Lagat, great question!

Who holds your PV record if it's so much better than ours? Some stupid hooker?

Bio Dome wrote:

idiocracy wrote:

America is funny:

1. Your pole vault record was just broken by a child.

2. Your record-keeping rules were apparently written by a child.

As for Lagat, great question!

Who holds your PV record if it's so much better than ours? Some stupid hooker?

Apparently a Hooker can jump your bones, and higher than any septic tank.

Hehe! Sweden has got the worlds best pole vaulter and the worlds very best online middle/long distance coach !

So, if Lagat is an American Citizen in May(even though he keeps it a secret), and then competes for Kenya, should he have his Olympic medal stripped for falsifying his eligibility?

Many countries have you denounce your previous citizenship if you become a citizen of said country.

Also, some countries do not allow for dual citizenship.