Tuohy 4:33!! New high school outdoor mile record

rojo wrote:

A few coments.

1) Anyone know why Tuohy didn't run USATF Jrs? I know her parents are trying to keep pressure off of her but does she not want to run Worlds?

Her parents appear to want to do the opposite of whatever Mary Cain did.

Macdaddy said: Also, isn’t Cain’s 4:24 the national record?

I don't make a study of the girl's mile, but I believe the top times for HS girls are as follows:

4:24.11i Mary Cain (Bronxville HS, Bronxville, NY) 24 Jan 2014 Boston, MA Terrier Invitational

4:28.25i Mary Cain (Bronxville HS, Bronxville, NY) 16 Feb 2013 New York, NY Millrose Games

4:33.87 Katelyn Tuohy (North Rockland HS, Thiells, NY) 17 Jun 2018 Greensboro, NC NBON

4:35.24 Polly Plumer (University HS, Irvine, CA) 16 May 1982 (in an open race at UCLA)

4:36.94 Kim Gallagher (Upper Dublin HS, Fort Washington, PA) 1982 (open competition)

4:36.95 Sarah Bowman-Brown (Fauquier HS, Warrenton, VA) 18 Jun 2005 Greensboro, NC NSAF (see notes)

4:37.91 Christina Aragon (Billings Senior HS, Billings, MT) 13 Jun 2015 New York, NY Adidas Grand Prix (HS-J Record)

4:39.05 Ari Lambie (Bromfield HS, Portola, OR) 14 Jun 2003 Raleigh, NC NSAF

4:39.25 Danielle Tauro (Southern Regional HS, Manahawkin, NJ) 17 Jun 2006 Greensboro, NC NSAF (ex HS-J record)

4:39.28 Mary Cain (Bronxville HS, Bronxville, NY) 26 Apr 2012 (HS-Soph record)

4:39.66 Wesley Frazier (Raleigh, NC) 17 Jun 2013 Greensboro, NC NBON (see notes)

4:39.71 Brianna Felnagle (Bellarmine Prep, Tacoma, WA) 18 Jun 2005 Greensboro, NC NSAF

4:39.94 Angel Piccirillo (Homer-Centre HS, Homer City, PA) 2012 (HS-only competition)

notes:

1. NSAF is the National Scholastic Athletic Foundation, and it is actually their championship. in 1994 it was sponsored by American Airlines and it has at other times been sponsored by Adidias and Nike when it was known as Foot Locker. it is now sponsored by New Balance and is known as the New Balance Outdoor Nationals. it's all the same meet.

2. until this year's NBON, the fastest outdoor mile by a HS girl, in a HS-only race, was Sarah Bowman-Brown's win at NSAF 2005. Polly Plumer's time was in an open race against college athletes, and both of Mary Cain's superior performances were indoors against college athlete's and professionals. I think that makes a difference, you may disagree.

3. it is also worth noting that both Tuohy and Bowman-Brown led from gun to tape. Tuohy was never challenged while Bowman-Brown had "Brie" Felnagle on her shoulder with 200m to go and kicked hard on the bottom bend for the win. in 2004, Bowman-Brown won the 800m (2:04.94) and was 9th in the mile (4:51.62).

4. in 1999 Shalane Flanagan was 5th (4:53.39), then in 2000 she improved to 2nd (4:48.47). in 2001 Molly Huddle was 3rd (4:50.98) then in 2002 she was 2nd (4:47.24). Jordan Hasay was 3rd in 2006 (4:42.27). Emily Infeld was 2nd in 2007 (4:47.96) then 1st in 2008 (4:47.43).

5. Arie Lambie was 6th in 2002 (4:53.31), 1st in 2003 (4:39.05); Mary Cain was 5th in 2011 (4:46.91), then in 2012 she became the first Sophomore to break 4:40; Kate Tuohy won this event last year in 4:45.95.

6. Wesley Frazier (Raleigh, NC) has an astonishing record in this meet. in 2011 she was 1st in the 1 mile (4:44.76), 3rd in the 2 miles (10:10.86), 1st in the 5000m (16:24.83) a sophomore record. in 2012 she was 2nd in the mile (4:48.28), 1st in the 2 miles (10:13.43, 3rd in the 5000m (16:51.04). in 2013 she won all three events, the 1 mile in 4:39.66 (won by over 8.5 seconds), 2 miles in 10:07.35, and the 5000m in a meet record 15:55.94 (Erin Finn was 2nd in the 5000m in 16:17.89, 21 seconds behind the winner). the only other person, male or female, to win all three has been Lukas Verzbicas at the 2011 New Balance Indoor Nationals.

7. one to watch - Lexy Halladay (Mountain View HS, Meridian, ID) last year she broke the HS freshman class mile record set by Mary Decker that had stood since 1973, though this year (10th grade) she seems to have focused more on the shorter events and has set pr's at 400m and 800m.

cheers.

Too good too soon. She'll be slower next year and even slower her senior year. Burn out ahoy!

usnspecialist wrote:

Great run, but not even the best in that age range this weekend. 17 year old Irish girl runs 409 (6 seconds faster than touhy who came thru in 415).

You should subscribe to "Milesplit Jupiter" and start following interplanetary girls track stats there.

You're going to run out of Earth girls to reach halfway across the planet and gratuitously try and bring this kid down with over the next two years.

rojo wrote:

A few coments.

1) Anyone know why Tuohy didn't run USATF Jrs? I know her parents are trying to keep pressure off of her but does she not want to run Worlds? Or

2) While this is the national outdoor record, plenty of other HSers have run faster. In the acutual mile, Cain (4:28.25) and Efraimson (4:32.15) have both run faster indoors.

And according to TFN's combined mile/1500 converted list, Tuohy is 7th fastest ever for US Hsers.

Combined 1500/1600/mile list (expressed as miles):

4:24.19+ *Cain 2013

4:26.82+ *Efraimson 2014

4:26.99+ *Murphy 2016

4:28.61+ Aragon 2016

4:31.03+ Cranny 2014

4:32.83+ Rainsberger 2016

4:33.87 Tuohy 2018

https://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn-lists/high-school-all-time-top-10s-girls/

I never would have posted anything positive if I had known this wasn't the single greatest athletic achievement of all time.

the truth hurtzzzz wrote:

Yahoo.com wrote:

You are a dumb. ass...enough said.

But he's right...

Cain hasn't been anywhere close to what she did back in 2013-2014. Slower times and injury. It's already been 4 years at this point.

Efraimson is still running at a high level, though. Not everyone is the same.

Ari Lambie won her State Meet mile in 4:37.23 in 2003, move her up a spot.

No one has mentioned yet if she look relaxed doing this.

rojo wrote:

A few coments.

1) Anyone know why Tuohy didn't run USATF Jrs? I know her parents are trying to keep pressure off of her but does she not want to run Worlds?

Easy answer here: she clearly wanted the backpack from NBN, that's why she didn't run USATF Jrs.

importantdetailsplease wrote:

No one has mentioned yet if she look relaxed doing this.

Yes, she looked relaxed, a little big on the arm action, but no big deal. She is biomechanically sound, very natural.

Her running style reminds me of Ritz in High school. Both have (had) a huge aerobic base superior to the current competition. I am concerned with her raw foot speed when she gets into the College or Pro ranks, just like Ritz. Ritz had great times and a wonderful career, but when he was against kickers, he posted great times, but often in non-winning efforts.

I don't know .. wrote:

Come on Now wrote:

I have a genuine question. Why was Sydney McLaughlin not getting this kind of criticism when she was 16??? Makes no sense to bash Tuohy saying she’s “peaking” when McLaughlin almost never got that kind of criticism. In fact, McLaughlin is only 19. People on Letsrun aren’t surprised even when college age woman peak. Why is no one saying “Once Mclaughlin grows into a women’s body, she won’t be nearly as fast as she was?” This whole thing with Tuohy is completely ridiculous, absolutely distasteful, and y’all cant even be consistent with your bashing.

So I'm asking.

Who is Sydney McLaughlin?

At least in distance running. Girls usually are really fast from 7-9th/10th grade then they start developing as women and they get slow/injured. Doesn't happen to all but happens alot. The general performance curve for HS Boys is an upward one and I would say your average girls performance curve would be downward. The girls that make it to college and thrive usually have a down year or two between HS dominance and collegiate success. Again this doesn't happen to everyone but im just stating what i seem to notice in my years of running.

rojo wrote:

1) Anyone know why Tuohy didn't run USATF Jrs? I know her parents are trying to keep pressure off of her but does she not want to run Worlds? Or /

I'll preface by saying I have no direct knowledge, only making educated guesses. My dad is a coach with a nationally ranked runner who had the standard for one of the distance races at USATF Jrs. And among several factors in the athlete's decision not to compete was that it was likely not going to be possible to have all the requisite documents in place, like a passport and all that. It may be that Tuohy was in a similar situation? I was surprised at just how much prep work and documentation was involved, and if its just her parents who are coaching her, they may not have been prepared.

But more likely, given how protective her parents are of her (at least, according to the NY Times article), they may have opted against the pressure of thrusting her onto the international stage at this point. They may have figured she'll have another shot in two years.

Pros in a race -- who cares! wrote:

Endjdjdn wrote:

Most of Mary Cain's records were with professional competition, which is hardly comparable to races against just high schoolers in my opinion.

Tell that to Alan Webb -- look at his outdoor high school mile record. Tell that to Drew Hunter -- look at his two indoor high school mile records, and his indoor high school 3k record. Who cares if pros are involved? A fast time is still earned, and it is still awesome. Mary Cain ran some fast times with faster runners, and those fast times are forever on her resume.

I agree with this guy. While sure a time ran with Pros means the athlete will probably run faster. Mary Cain Controlled that millrose race if i am not mistaken she wasn't simply pulled along to a fast time. She had earned the right to be running with pros to begin with. Alan Webb got like 3rd or 4th place in his mile and was coming back on a Lagat' down the homestretch if I remember correctly. You should race to your ability level. If you start a season running JV level but get faster your'e not going to continue practicing with JV athletes.

I do try to take into account that a solo record may be worth a bit more. Example German Fernandez after his double or his solo 2 mile in my opinion wouldve probably run what Verzbicas run or faster in a similar race(2 mile/3200) but we can only speculate and that is a part of track and field. In this case 4:33 solo still not remotely close to 4:24.

pert wrote:

Her running style reminds me of Ritz in High school. Both have (had) a huge aerobic base superior to the current competition. I am concerned with her raw foot speed when she gets into the College or Pro ranks, just like Ritz. Ritz had great times and a wonderful career, but when he was against kickers, he posted great times, but often in non-winning efforts.

Yup. This girl is running massive mileage and has little true foot speed. She will crash hard in the coming years. Looks for Lane to be the truly competitive one past age 18.

Adol wrote:

pert wrote:

Her running style reminds me of Ritz in High school. Both have (had) a huge aerobic base superior to the current competition. I am concerned with her raw foot speed when she gets into the College or Pro ranks, just like Ritz. Ritz had great times and a wonderful career, but when he was against kickers, he posted great times, but often in non-winning efforts.

Yup. This girl is running massive mileage and has little true foot speed. She will crash hard in the coming years. Looks for Lane to be the truly competitive one past age 18.

So let me get this straight. You’re saying Tuohy will crash( in large part) due to her “lack of foot speed....”. Then you say Lane will end up being “the truely competitive one.” You do realize that Lane has far, far slower foot speed than Tuohy. Her mile pr, 4:47, is 15 seconds slower and Lane would have hardly been top 7 at the Cali State meet in the 16, let alone top 7- all time 1500/mile combined.

Let’s remember that Tuohy has NEVER been injured, has improved every season, and has fantastic form. Your post is a nice laugh though. Thanks for bestowing upon us your great wisdom that a girl who has run 4:33 solo in 95 degree heat with high humidity has no foot speed and that’s going to contribute to her to her “crashing hard” in the next few years. But oh wait, Lane, who was injured this year and didn’t run at her state meet, and with that blistering 4:47 mile Pr, is obviously going to be the future....

Let's Not Jump to Conclusions wrote:

Han Solo wrote:

She might just be a freak athlete though.

Nah. I think she's in the same category as every other sophomore girl who's run 4:33, 9:05 and 15:37.

One of these young runners will not plateau-out in her late teens or early twenties. We just can't tell ahead of time.

I see huge success for Tuohy going forward. She doesn't the body of a frail ultralight girl. She already has muscle development that few females achieve, at least not until they get into a college program and start full body training with weights etc.

By the time Tuohy is done with HS she will own every HS record. She just needs to stay healthy.

A massive aerobic base in high school WILL cause burn-out, injury, and future crashing.

Want to build a great distance runner? High school focus should be on varied events (400 - 5000), regular in-season racing (no "chasing records"), occasional triple-jumping, cross-training like swimming and biking, and SENSIBLE mileage.

These are irrefutable FACTS.