Is Callum Hawkins going to win his first marathon at the CW games?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Commonwealth Games Vancouver 1954. Didn't we learn anything!

Idiots.

They should be prosecuted...or at least fired!

This is shocking, watching Shelley run past Hawkins like that was a lesson how cold top level has become.

Yes, Shelley should have stopped to help. Then the third place athelete having also seen what was happening should also have stopped to offer assistance. Then the fourth place, etc, etc...

Then once they were all happy, cooled down, and rehydrated, they should all have set off again, one at a time, Hawkins first getting a 2 minute head start, followed by Shelley, etc.

A few years down the line a Holywood film would have followed. Great stuff...

You look at Paula Newby-Frazier in 1995 Ironman she was in a similar probably worse state. She got medical attention and was back on her feet running. Note how at 6-mins her fiance is demanding they get an ambulance for her (and by luck a spectator happens to have a cellular phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_utqeQALVE

Can I Play With Madness wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is shocking, watching Shelley run past Hawkins like that was a lesson how cold top level has become.

Yes, Shelley should have stopped to help. Then the third place athelete having also seen what was happening should also have stopped to offer assistance. Then the fourth place, etc, etc...

Then once they were all happy, cooled down, and rehydrated, they should all have set off again, one at a time, Hawkins first getting a 2 minute head start, followed by Shelley, etc.

A few years down the line a Holywood film would have followed. Great stuff...

Yes I understand the point you are making, Shelley didn't want to get caught, but he was well ahead of the Ugandan. The problem is his callous lack of acknowledgement when he went past a potentially comatose rival.

dingo gravy wrote:

Seriously mate? wrote:

STFU. Clearly he was suffering heat stroke and not going to finish the race. It was a goddamn disgrace no one helped him and how long it took for an ambulance to reach him. Heat stroke is no joke and the kid could end up with organ failure or even worse.

toughen up son. spectators don't know if they can touch them or not

What’s your excuse for how long it took the damn medical staff to help? There’s no excuse for anyone here and I don’t understand how the hell there’s always so many people making them

Northern Hemisphere Sanity wrote:

Who cares about social media informing your thoughts?

It didn't. That was basically the point of my post.

That, and not blaming the officials. Just watched again - LESS than 2 mins from when he finally hits the deck until the they are beside him. The organisers have said medical staff were posted at 500m intervals and HE chose to run on from the point he initially got into trouble (and AWAY from assistance). So yeah, point a finger at the clowns taking pictures, but it's a bit daft having a go at the organisation.

And as for Hawkins being a "hero". I guess that's a subjective opinion, and I'm sure this won't be a popular thing to say (although I'd bet anything it will be playing on Hawkins mind for sometime) but collapsing with just over a mile to go, with a 2 minute lead in hand, in a race were the time was irrelevant, does not seem heroic it seems stupid.

Some of the twitter feedback is OTT, abusing Shelley for not stopping and saying he should give his medal back?

My biggest worry was him smashing his head on the crash barrier which I think is why one spectator is seen pushing him away.

I think I would have hesitated if I'd been spectating, you want to help if its clear he is done but don't want to be the one who gets him a DQ. The Brownlee brothers went through a scare like that which went on longer and he managed to pull through and finish (just).

He's visibly weaving all over the road at 2.03

Collapses at 2.04. There are motorbikes alongside him.

Down on the rail at 2.06

Collapses again at 2.07, nearly hitting his head on the metal railing.

Staff step in at 2.09. Have stood next to him for a minute but not touched him by the time Shelley passes and the cameras leave Hawkins.

Assuming the pictures were still leave, we see him being put in an ambulance at 2.20.

Leading the race, cameras on him the whole time. Maybe being gold medal position accounted for much of the time it has taken to get him help, nobody wanting to be one the one to take the leader out of the race. Once he falls at 2.04, that ought be enough for an official to give the word to pull him out of the race for his own safety and get him medical help. Is it the IAAF that needs to tighten the ruleshere?

I feel bad for Hawkins, and I am concerned for his recovery, too. But -- Shelley should have stopped for Hawkins? What exactly would he have done, and what would some 'gesture of concern' done? Hawkins was on the ground ~15 minutes before being removed from the course -- should all of the runners have stopped? After all, if Shelley stopped, then the next guy should have stopped because Shelley stopped. And the one after that because those two did. They all should have stood there and waited to see if medical personnel were every going to arrive, and once they determined that Hawkins was to be a DNF, then I guess they should have just cancelled the race because the leader collapsed. Probably should do that every time anyone in the lead group suffers an injury, an illness, falls, etc.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Commonwealth Games Vancouver 1954. Didn't we learn anything!

Idiots.

They should be prosecuted...or at least fired!

This is shocking, watching Shelley run past Hawkins like that was a lesson how cold top level has become.

???

What was Shelley suppose to do?

He was at km 40 of a very hot marathon. He was probably one step away from feeling what Hawkins was feeling. There were race officials next to Hawkins already (who had not raced 40km), had cell phones...

It's not as if this was a race in the desert with nobody around Hawkins.

Interesting points. I read an earlier post on this thread saying Hawkins had 41 seconds at 30k. He also had over 2 mins when his race was finally over at 2:07 although the poster above says he started going all over the place at 2:03. So what was his lead at that point? At a guess it must have been ~ 3 mins maybe. That means he could have ran the last 10k at 30 secs per mile slower and potentially controlled his body / overheating better.

Sounds like that was exactly what Shelley was doing rather than cranking it up in extreme conditions. So should he really be seen as a villain of the piece for running sensibly?

Classic example of bystander theory.

you can see the splits here

https://results.gc2018.com/en/athletics/result-men-s-marathon-fnl-000100-.htm

i was watching live - Tsepo Mathibelle from Lesoto was third coming near the 40km mark about a minute clear of the Ugandan who eventually finished second. The camera was on him and you see him start to wobble then he crosses himself, stops, stumbles a bit, then start again, then stops again. He just ran out of gas - if he'd kept going he would probably would have ended up doing what Hawkins did.

As soon as Hawkins went down the second time he should have received assistance - at the very least he should have been put into the recovery position but instead was left laying flat on his back in searing heat on hot tarmac road. It was very distressing and concerning to watch.

On couch in Edinburgh wrote:

Interesting points. I read an earlier post on this thread saying Hawkins had 41 seconds at 30k. He also had over 2 mins when his race was finally over at 2:07 although the poster above says he started going all over the place at 2:03. So what was his lead at that point? At a guess it must have been ~ 3 mins maybe. That means he could have ran the last 10k at 30 secs per mile slower and potentially controlled his body / overheating better.

Sounds like that was exactly what Shelley was doing rather than cranking it up in extreme conditions. So should he really be seen as a villain of the piece for running sensibly?

On the television the lead was given as 1m 41 would must have been a couple of minutes max before you see Hawkins start to sway.

Hawkins would have needed to complete the last 2.2k in roughly 9 mins for gold, and 12 mins for a place on the podium. As with Recho Kosgei's collapse in Warsaw last year, success was guaranteed if the athlete could only jog in. Only they clearly couldn't. It may just be because the cameras follow the lead and so these are the only times we see it, but it is these positions of almost guaranteed success that we see athletes being left to suffer for needlessly long periods before they receive medical aid. You can't blame race officials for wanting to give the athlete every chance of achieving that success, but rules could be clearer across the board on when they must step in.

also - Saidi Juma Makula of Tanzania collapsed and failed to finish despite being only three seconds behind eventual bronze medallist Robbie Simpson at 40km

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Can I Play With Madness wrote:

Yes, Shelley should have stopped to help. Then the third place athelete having also seen what was happening should also have stopped to offer assistance. Then the fourth place, etc, etc...

Then once they were all happy, cooled down, and rehydrated, they should all have set off again, one at a time, Hawkins first getting a 2 minute head start, followed by Shelley, etc.

A few years down the line a Holywood film would have followed. Great stuff...

Yes I understand the point you are making, Shelley didn't want to get caught, but he was well ahead of the Ugandan. The problem is his callous lack of acknowledgement when he went past a potentially comatose rival.

And this is why you are posting on letsrun and not racing at a high level.

Unless Shelley was a medic, and fully understood the circumstances, he has no place interfering with other athletes in a race.

Its not his job, either officially or otherwise. Hawkins had his own team leadership to draw on. Or are you saying they were nowhere near him?

Pretty shocking considering what happened to his father almost a month ago today

Sir Bastion Newbold wrote:

also - Saidi Juma Makula of Tanzania collapsed and failed to finish despite being only three seconds behind eventual bronze medallist Robbie Simpson at 40km

7 or the 24 starters did not finish. That's 29% of the starters. In addition 5 of the finishers ran slower than 2:30, including two of them who finished slower than 2:40. Is that the highest DNF ratio of any marathon in history?

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Commonwealth Games Vancouver 1954. Didn't we learn anything!

Idiots.

They should be prosecuted...or at least fired!

This is shocking, watching Shelley run past Hawkins like that was a lesson how cold top level has become.

No, you are wrong. By the time Shelley went by there were people standing with Hawkins (still doing nothing, but present). Shelley had no way of knowing that CH was there for so long by himself. From Shelley’s perspective things were being dealt with, run on, win the race. Nothing wrong or evil in his running past.

I’ve read many of your posts over the last few days. Most of them are poorly thought out, and this is just another example.

I would have loved for Hawkins to win, but to imply Shelley is ruthless or heartless is just plain wrong.

The real villains here are those who choose to hold the race in such temperatures.

All the big city marathons are held in the Spring or Autumn for a reason.

You would have thought the Commonwealth Games organisers would have been aware of the 1954 fiasco.

I'm reminded of something Geb said back at the time of the 2004 Olympics. When asked if he would be running in the marathon, he said that he wouldn't because it would be too hot!

And, that from an African.

The games organisers have a duty to protect the welfare of athletes. and timing marathons to be run in 30 degree temperature is a neglect of those duties.