Jack Foster's training

No, I'm reasonably certain it was 5 to 1, but that was using the original Cooper text circa 1968. They may have

updated the data since then. Also I wonder if the benefits are the same with these new high-tech bikes?

I have not been on a bicycle since the 1980's so all I know about biking is from watching the odd Tri on TV or the OLN coverage of the Tour de France (whose competitors I tip my hat to, those guys are NUTS riding that fast in packs in those mountains).

Bump

Not sure we can keep this thread going !

The day after that great relay run a training run was organised in the forest. 8:00am next morning. Unfortunately some of us celebrated the Relay win well into the night and arrived at the forest a little worse for wear.

The group was large (in excess of 20)and the run was supposed to be 11/2 to 2 hours and on some of the 'lower' hills. After about 40 minutes I noted that Jack turned up "Hill Road" which led to the top of a hill called Moerangi, still nearly 1000 feet to climb !

The climb was rugged, my "wheels" fell off about a km from the top and I barely made it mid pack.

At the summit Jack was prancing around like a kid, busting to get going again. we headed down the hill and around a lake, then someone mentioned another lake. Jack agreed. I dreaded that as the only way out from that lake was another very steep hill !!.

I don't think that at any stage Jack was anywhere further back in the pack than 3rd chatting away about all sorts of subjects. I had known Jack since I was 15 years old and by this stage I was 22 and had my own Sports Car (An Austin Healey), Jack shared the passion and we would talk cars, that could take forever when you are running !!!.

We climbed the last hill but by that stage I realised that I was "shot to pieces" and would be just quietly jogging home. Meanwhile a couple of "wannabes" racked up the pace for the last 3 to 4km. Jack just sat in and ran along.

The last km was a downhill forest track with a gate at the bottom. By this stage the pace was on but Jack put evryone out of their misery by sprinting down the hill and hurdling the gate beautifully. By the time I got in Jack looked like he had just been around the block for a jog.

We had been out for over 21/2 hours and the pace had been "strong" all the way.

The man was magic !!!

Jeez! Sounds like you guys could've used a beer afterwards!

Did you guys ever just jog?

Mate ! we had drunk a heap of Beer the night before. No ! Jack was not with us then.

Great story. Gotta tell you he looked about the same after the LA marathon. He and Cusack looked like were for a stroll. What an aerobic monster. Beers afterwards probably would have been medicinal.

bump

It is really hard keeping this thread going, but if any of you can come up with questions or like 48 some personal experiences the we can kep going.

From me (Again !), it seem from an outsiders point of view that Jack was a "Super runner" . He was !. But if you met him in the street he was a very private guy who struggled with the big crowds and the adulation. He loved just "going for a run", loved the company of other runners but never sought that company. He was a fiercely loyal club member and turned out for the local club in all sorts of events.

But he loved his cycling as much as running and in the last 15 or so years that is what he did most.

At his funeral one of his sons mentioned that Jack would have thrown all the running away and all the trips it involved just to have the opportunity to ride the Tour de France. I have often wondered what he thought of someone like Lance Armstrong. Jack would have been an ideal support rider for him. Attack ! Attack ! attack ! That would have been Jack.

A super domestique for Armstrong huh? I'd take the 2:11 Marathon any day personally, but we've all got to dream!

A lot of the research I've been doing lately is a comparison of the Marathoners of the late 60's through the early 80's. What made them tick? Why were they so good that they could run shoulder to shoulder with the Africans today? Marathoners from the US as well as New Zeland and Australia that is. What made them tick? Etc.

The best I can come up with so far is simplicity. Those great runners just ran. Their running was based on "I CAN." A world of running only limited by imagination. Now, runners trying to climb their way back to greatness, seem to be caught up in a "I CAN'T" mentality. I know this is an oversimplification but I think there's really something to it. Heart monitors and lactate kits and gels and altitude tents and antipronation roll bars in our shoes!! I see nothing but limits unfortunately and I refuse to succomb to that way of running anymore. I guess Jack represents to me a perfect example of this free spirited runner who runs with his heart and not his head. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss. I need to stay off Letsrun!!

Not sure if this has been posted here:

From "Tale of the Ancient Marathoner" World Publications November 1974

John Charles (Jack) Foster: Roturua, NZ (Roturua Harrier Club). 5'8", 140 pounds. Born May 23, 1932, at Liverpool, England. Married, four children. Occupation: clerk. Began running in 1965 at age 32. Self-coached.

Best times: 880 yds-2:01.2 (72); mile-4:19.8(68); 3000m-8:33 (73); 5000m-13:56 (73); 10,000m-28:46 (72); 15,000m-43:58 (73); 10m-48:22 (71); 15m-1:13:47 (71); 25k-1:16:29 (71); 30k-1:32:48 (71); 20m-1:39:14 (71) World Track Best. Marathon-2:11:18 (at age 41)

Daily running (don't like the word "training!") Four weeks prior to the 20 mile WR in August 1971.

July 18-AM, 40 min. jog in track suit(cold); PM 1,3/4 hours country(hard at it).

July 19-25 min. jog in track suit.

July 20-one hour, country, very hilly (brisk pace felt good).

July 21-horse track, seven miles including miles of 4:41,4:37,4:40, six minute jogs between (cold night).

July 22-80 min., country (worked hard, not fast but bloody hilly; cold night again)

July 23-easy jog, 30 min. (felt poor)

July 24-jog 15 min.,2mile time trial, easy 9:30, jog

Weeks Total: about 75 miles

July 25-2.5 hours, mostly XC and bush tracks (felt poor, no "sting" but nice running.

July 26-no run, too tired (or lazy)

July 27-one hour, country, hilly (ran hard)

July 28-horse track, six miles including 4:40, 4:39, 4:39, jog six minutes between each.

July 29-one hour country (ran easy, didn't try)

July 30-three mile easy jog

July 31-Provincial XC Championships; ran hard from the front the whole way; hilly course soft going, cool, no wind.

Weeks Total: about 65 miles

Aug. 1-20 miles on road, 2:03 (blisters slowed me, nice day)

Aug. 2-no run (car broke down worked late on it).

Aug. 3-80 min. in forest and hills (worked hard at it, really going up steep bits)

Aug. 4-horse track, seven miles including three at 4:51, jogging others (freezing rain and strong wind).

Aug. 5-16 plus miles on road, 1:30 (dead in both senses of the word, cold showers)

Aug. 6-three mile easy jog.

Aug. 7-AM five mile jog; PM 10 miles on horse track, four fast (no time), four slow, two jog.

Weeks Total: about 75 miles

Aug. 8-Bush road, 2:10 (one really big hill, finished tired, cool and showery)

Aug. 9-three mile jog (felt lousy stomach upset)

Aug. 10-no run (only to & from the toilet)

Aug. 11-horse track, seven miles including 4:41,4:41,4:56 (knackered!).

Aug. 12-1:15, country (legs very heavy, fed up!)

Aug. 13-nine miles, road, 51 min. (steady run)

Aug. 14-three mile jog (felt OK tonight)

Aug. 15-20 miles, Hamilton Stadium (80 bloody laps, must be stupid!

three NZ records, 15 m, 25km, 39km,; world best for 20; not bad for an old bugger).

Total: 80 miles 8 days.

verbatim from diary.

Well maybe if we ditched all the goo, GPS systems, Galloway books, HRMs and anti-pronation shoes, took off our watches and could find a stockpile of Tiger Marathons someplace, then went out on the road or into the fields wearing them then just ran as in...

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

'n brought it back to basics, we'd be onto something?

Kim Stevenson wrote:

Some more thoughts. Regarding his book. VERY rare. I understand it is fetching $150 in the US at present on e bay.

I looked on Amazon and it was over $150 there too. I'd be very interested in reading this book as well. There are probably copyright issues, but one idea is to publish on the net - charge users 10-20 bucks to download a PDF of the book. At least the family's expenses would be next to nothing to do this.

In the spirit of helping Kim keep the thread going, I'll suggest that Jack's enduring popularity is connected to the simplicity of his approach. In the old days, we used to comment about running being the ultimate in simple sports. All you needed were some shoes, shorts, and maybe a sweatsuit and you were in business.

Jack succeeded while keeping it all that simple and in perspective. How many guys with much slower times than Jack had complain here at LR about how they can't reach their full potential because they have to deal with supporting themselves and can't train properly. Yet, there was Jack with himself, a wife and three or four (which is it, Kim) kids to support training on sheepland in the dark after work. And he never seemed to be any different than anyone's next door neighbor. I always got the impression that he was a bit puzzled by the attention.

Dead right Rich, I too believe he found the attention puzzling.

He had 4 kids to support. Now of course the youngest of them is 40. So when you think back only a year, Jack was still very active.

One of my athletes has been following this thread and reminded me yesterday he was with me when I spoke to the old friend of Jack's who said that Jack had just run up to his house (5k from his own). The answer when I asked how did he look was "As good as ever. Probably 61/2 minute miles"

That was nearly a year ago. Jack was 72 !.

All he was doing was 'Going for a run,calling on an old mate".

He would have seen nothing unusual in that. The rest of us just marvel.

I had discussions with Jack on republishing in 2000. He was very wary as he felt he had been "ripped off" the last time and felt he would only do do if someone came through to Rotorua and sat down with him and they put a deal together.

At his funeral one of his sons said they would look at republishing with more as he only went as far as 1974 in the current book. When you consider he was still running well in 1983 there is still a lot of info to go in.

If people are thinking of putting the book on the net, the family need to be contacted.

Right on! Keep It Simple Stupid is my new mantra.

Reeder wrote:

Hi JR, Seniors Track Club, right?

Mark,

Yes that's right.

I don't know how we ran all those miles in the smog of Los Angeles.

Good to see you're still at it.

BPD:

You're heading in the right direction. It's not quite as simple as the power of positive thinking, but postive thinking--the refusal to pre-impose limits on performance--is a part of it. Simplicity. Non-attachment to outcomes (positive or negative) as a conduit to extraordinary positive outcomes.

I've always known that with each technological extension--HR monitor, mileage-and-pace-measurer, etc.--I was focusing on new information only at the expense of older and just as valid information. In other words, twenty years ago when I ran with nothing more than a Casio chronometer, strictly by feel, and thumbnailed my distance later by using a map-measurer on a scaled city map (!!), I was paying attention to all sorts of subtleties INSIDE my body. These days, after a twenty-year dormancy and two years back in serious training, strapped with a Fitsense, I pay more attention to my momentary pace, cumulative pace, and accumulating distance and, inevitably--inevitably!--less attention to those embodied subtleties.

This is the truth you're touching on, I think. In the old days, guys (and gals) just ran. Most of the mileage (except for track work) was on roughly measured routes, with wrist watches that weren't even chronometers. (My old Casio was a "modern" improvement over that.) I suspect that back in the 1960s, some runners actually looked at the clock, then ran out the front door, did their run, then dashed in off the porch and looked at the clock when the run was over.

In no way am I saying that this sort of pre-technological approach is necessarily better. All I'm directing attention to is what is lost--i.e., what you begin to pay less attention to, and less subtle attention to--when you begin to add on HR monitors (I no longer wear mine), GPS/Fitesense devices, and the like. You begin, inevitably, to treat your body like one more gizmo. And it's not. It requires subtle attention in a way, frankly, that no gizmo does. And it repays that attention.

I remember running the Tupelo (Miss.) 14.2 miler last year when a marathon was being run concurrently. I came even with a marathoner and asked him what sort of pace he was shooting for. He didn't even have a watch! "I'm not shooting for a pace," he said. "I'm just running by feel and running the best race I can."

Indeed.

So true. We have overanalyzed this pastime and made it

way too scientific, when, at its base, it is very elemental.

Wow, a stockpile of tiger marathons. Flashback city.