Why I hate the stock market. Unprofitable Tesla is now worth more than profitable Ford which sells 28 x as many cars

You ever heard of earnings potential big boy??? Why put money in a company with limited scope for growth when you can pump $$$ into what many believe will be the future of cars? It's Economics101.

rojo wrote:

Tesla's market cap is 47 billion. Ford's is 45 billion.

Yet Ford made $4.8 billion last year and Tesla lost $773 million.

Everyone seems excited because Tesla delivered more than 25,000 vehicles this quarter. So what? Ford sold more than 17 million vehicles in the US alone last year. Ford sold more than 237,000 vehicles last month - month not quarter- so they sell even right now are still selling about 28 times as many vehicles as Tesla and in a profitable manner.

Ok, then do what everyone else in this thread recommends - short the stock. In this instance you should love the stock market. It doesn't matter if a stock is overvalued or undervalued - you can always make money...if you're right.

Or maybe you don't like the fact that Tesla benefits from government intrusion, which may push its stock value up...but that's a government intrusion problem, not a stock market problem.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Let's get real wrote:

First off, I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread but regarding your title...did you consult w/your twin brother Wejo first? I believe and read somewhere on this site that he was a finance major....no?

You are wrongly assuming the ivy league school taught the brosjos something.

They have posted enough here to show they don't even have the reasoning capability of a community college student, this thread included.

I love how many battery techs and Auto tech savants the lrc produces as well.

Does it get any worse than using Moore's law to justify something that has nothing to do with silicon? I don't think so.

I will be checking this thread frequently.

You're funny!...😂🤣🙃

Howard Dean wrote:

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

Ah yes, all of those people who have been duped by buying into legitimate science and the overwhelming consensus of thousands of scientists across the world.....they are the gullible.

zephito wrote:

Or maybe you don't like the fact that Tesla benefits from government intrusion, which may push its stock value up...but that's a government intrusion problem, not a stock market problem.

What makes you think that other American automakers don't benefit from government intrusion? They have been getting government intrusion help for far too many years to count. In fact, Trump is planning on easing clean fuel requirements that would not benefit Tesla but rather the major automakers. Government intrusion at its best.

Don't hate on the stock market, rojo. Probably is responsible for at least some of your trust fund money.

uncorrecamundo wrote:

KudzuRunner wrote:

I bought a few shares of Tesla about four years ago, and I occasionally buy another. I view Elon Musk as a genius on the order of a Thomas Edison. So I'm not the slightest bit worried by the ups and downs. He doesn't just think big, he thinks huge, and when all the chips finally fall into place--well, I'm holding aces.

Elon Musk = Thomas Edison? For what? Starting a payment processing company?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xh_VRrnMU&sns=fb

The math has been done on all of this, and electric cars absolutely have smaller carbon footprints. First off, much electricity production in the US is shifting away from coal. Secondly, even if all electricity was produced purely from coal, an electric car would still be far more efficient. The video you posted is simply wrong about the numbers, and I wish it would have cited a source for its calculations.

cgoon wrote:

Howard Dean wrote:

Tesla play nicely into the carbon scam. People don't think rationally or logically when it comes to issues of climate. Tesla and others have done a phenomenal job of playing on the fears of the gullible.

I wonder how many people who buy green stocks actually fell for the global warming hoax. A lot of them probably know all about Al Gore's scheme to get rich and figured they might as well go along for the ride. I doubt anybody investing in the stock market really gives a shit about the environment. I mean this many people can't still believe in global warming. Can they?

I wonder how many people who say the phrase "global warming hoax" have taken at least one college-level science course.

Elon MF Musk for Men wrote:

More stock market fortunes are made selling short than buying long.

Read Confessions of a Stock Operator. It will change your life.

Timing is everything--but 300 bucks a share can turn to a penny stock in 6 months, and TSLA is one for the ages. There is 47 Billion out there just waiting to be harvested. Will it happen this year, or next-or 5 years from now?

No matter the hype, it's hard for me to believe that niche company will turn into the next Honda, Ford, or Volkswagen company, making tens of millions of cars per year in the next decade.

The problem with shorting is that an indirect route to the bottom can wipe out your position. Take Sears, for instance. Everyone knows it is going to zero, but it might go to $15 (from $11) first. Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Rojo,

You are correct in your Tesla assumptions. Tesla is just one example how the current stock market is divorced from any fundamental investing metric. Tesla is a business model that depends upon a narrative and government tax credits to continue in it's present form. The company is hemoraging $Billions and investors have been duped into believing that the purchase of Solar City was part of a grand plan. Here is the most recent Quarterly filing where one can clearly see the $3Billion in debt the company added over a nine month period.

http://ir.tesla.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1564590-16-26820&CIK=1318605

Igy

Legalized ponzi scheme.

Several points here:

1. Valuations for companies like Tesla are always valuations of their future earnings potential. Amazon was famously unprofitable for years, yet Wall Street still loved it. In the end, it's easy to see why that love was there despite a lack of initial profitability.

2. Tesla starting out as a luxury car company gives it far more options than a company currently positioned in Ford's place. It is much easier to move "down market" and into the $30k price range than vice versa. If Tesla ends up producing an SUV for $40k that has a 300 mile range and Tesla styling, why would anyone buy a Ford SUV? Can you imagine making a similar claim about Ford's potential? I think not.

3. There is no doubt that America will need lower-carbon emitting energy sources in coming years. Tesla is positioning itself to be the source of that energy. That could potentially be huge. I remember in 1998 or so when Apple was widely considered to have "lost" to Microsoft because they had invested in hardware rather than just software. Almost twenty years later, consumers hardly ever purchase software. They purchase devices. Apple isn't just a computer company anymore, either. I can easily see Tesla filling a similar role in energy and transportation.

zack348938 wrote:

I wonder how many people who say the phrase "global warming hoax" have taken at least one college-level science course.

It is those who have only taken one college level science course that are likely to parrot the global warming headlines. Anybody who actually reads the studies knows what a fallacy the whole thing is.

rojo wrote:

Tesla's market cap is 47 billion. Ford's is 45 billion.

Yet Ford made $4.8 billion last year and Tesla lost $773 million.

Everyone seems excited because Tesla delivered more than 25,000 vehicles this quarter. So what? Ford sold more than 17 million vehicles in the US alone last year. Ford sold more than 237,000 vehicles last month - month not quarter- so they sell even right now are still selling about 28 times as many vehicles as Tesla and in a profitable manner.

The people that suck up to the tech sector blow me away. Look how this article is written.

https://www.recode.net/2017/4/3/15160462/tesla-ford-deliveries-record-sales

There a lot of smart people heavily investing in Tesla, the value is based what people think...it's as simple as that. Tesla's potential goes way beyond automobiles, basically any piece of equipment that currently uses a petro engine, as well as batteries and solar technology. With out exaggeration, Tesla literally has the potential to become the profitable company in the world in 2 decades.

4

rojo wrote:

The Chevy Bolt is far ahead of anything Tesla has ever made in terms of price/range.

Lord. What on earth are you talking about? By the end of the year, Tesla will have sold more of their $35,000 Model 3s than Chevy will have sold of their $37,000 Bolts. The Bolt, incidentally, won't go as far on a charge and will be lower quality in every way. In 2018, Tesla will sell 50 times more EVs, if Chevy sells any at all.

Where did you hear that the Bolt was far ahead?

cgoon wrote:

zack348938 wrote:

I wonder how many people who say the phrase "global warming hoax" have taken at least one college-level science course.

It is those who have only taken one college level science course that are likely to parrot the global warming headlines. Anybody who actually reads the studies knows what a fallacy the whole thing is.

Then why have multiple actual studies shown that 95-97% of scientists who actively publish in climate science journals believe in anthropogenic global warming? Specifically, the Anderegg study is a good example.

rojo wrote:

Tesla's market cap is 47 billion. Ford's is 45 billion.

Yet Ford made $4.8 billion last year and Tesla lost $773 million.

Everyone seems excited because Tesla delivered more than 25,000 vehicles this quarter. So what? Ford sold more than 17 million vehicles in the US alone last year. Ford sold more than 237,000 vehicles last month - month not quarter- so they sell even right now are still selling about 28 times as many vehicles as Tesla and in a profitable manner.

The people that suck up to the tech sector blow me away. Look how this article is written.

https://www.recode.net/2017/4/3/15160462/tesla-ford-deliveries-record-sales

How many $60,000-$120,000 cars did Ford sell? Do they have 400,000 deposits for their unreleased $35,000 car? Are their sales projected to grow 260% next year?

This was all discussed a year ago, FYI:

Good. I guess we can stop giving the genius taxpayer money and let his genius carry the company.

KudzuRunner wrote:

I bought a few shares of Tesla about four years ago, and I occasionally buy another. I view Elon Musk as a genius on the order of a Thomas Edison. So I'm not the slightest bit worried by the ups and downs. He doesn't just think big, he thinks huge, and when all the chips finally fall into place--well, I'm holding aces.

slicker than snot wrote:

Good. I guess we can stop giving the genius taxpayer money and let his genius carry the company.

Hahaha. You think gas car and oil companies don't get taxpayer money?

Read this

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html