Nike sub 2 Hour Marathon attempt in 2017 & Nike ruins dream Bekele vs. Kipchoge London matchup

So I was contacted by a reporter this afternoon who wanted to know 1) if I viewed today's announcement as a legitimate attempt or a marketing gimmick 2) wanted to know what the reaction in the running community was to the announcement, and 3) wanted to know if there were any details that I wanted to be revealed about the attempt.

Since I spent a half hour collecting my thoughts, I thought I might as well share them here.

1) I'm very disappointed by today's announcement on some many levels.

I totally view it as a marketing gimmick. Anyone who understands the sport knows that we're not anywhere close to being ready for a legitimate sub-2 hour attempt on a standard course with a standard surface. The idea that one of these guys is going to do it in 2017 is just beyond stupid.

And if we are talking about doing it with some ridiculous amount of aid (downhill or downwind - perhaps they'll drive behind the runners with fan blowing on them), then who the heck cares? Under that logic, then Justin Gatlin is the world's fastest man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAz1gnXCTQc

If it's only the time that matters, then I'm going to sponsor the first sub-4 minute mile by a woman as there clearly are a lot of women that could run a sub-4 minute mile if they ran it down a mountain.

The fact that the time and place hasn't been announced proves it’s a marketing gimmick. Let people talk about it and generate the swoosh some free publicity for six weeks before announcing the details.

What is most disappointing in my mind though is Nike has made this all about them. In the process of announcing this marketing gimmick, they've killed off one of the most anticipated marathon matchups in history - Kenenisa Bekele vs. Eliud Kipchoge - and killed off one of the greatest marathons on the planet - the London Marathon - for 2017.

Imagine for a moment that running is golf. The greatest in history Tiger Woods (Bekele) has been out injured. But suddenly he's back and on a tear and he's set to face Jordan Spieth (Kipchoge), who is totally on top of his game as well, at the Masters. The fans can't wait as they've never seen an in-form Woods vs. Spieth at the Masters. That's what we were going to get at London this year. Instead, we learn that there will be no Woods - Spieth dual at the Masters because Nike is paying Spieth to try out some new equipment and go for the lowest score on record in an exhibition.

The sheer amount of arrogance behind this announcement is also mind-boggling. So we're supposed to believe the people in the sports science lab at Nike - the same people who had no idea that Lance Armstrong was committing one of the biggest frauds in history for over a decade(or the same people who had the insoles coming out of Kipchoge's shoes last year in Berlin) - are so much smarter than everyone else that they can get a human to run three minutes faster than before in the span of six months?

2) I don't know how the running community feels about it. I mean that's like asking how does the US feel about Donald Trump's election. But I'm pleasantly surprised though that on our forum, where many of the sport's most die-hard fans are, most people seem to be against the idea and realize it's a gimmick as shown here (link to this thread)

3) Yes, all of the details I need to know. I really want to know about the a) wind and b) elevation drop. If there is some unnatural wind tunnel created, then who cares? We already know that a 20 mph tail wind for a marathon can easily be worth 3-4 minutes (Provided a link to John Kellogg's prediction to the possibility of a 2:03 in Boston).

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Will not happen.

I will bet every penny I have, and will ever earn, that the marathon WR stays above 2:00:00 until such a time as we openly allow some kind of performance boosting supplements and/or apparatus.

You mean MORE than the ones they are already taking?

The IAAF is okay with doping. Just bring the money.

Indoor road course (not track) in a very large warehouse, perfectly formulated smooth bitumen surface, very gentle banked turns (4 turns, 4 straights), climate controlled temperature, pacing camera on a track going at 2 hour pace, spectators cheering from stands on the inside of the course. 2:00:59 and Nike can still claim a 2 hour marathon.

rojo wrote:

Imagine for a moment that running is golf. The greatest in history Tiger Woods (Bekele) has been out injured. But suddenly he's back and on a tear and he's set to face Jordan Spieth (Kipchoge), who is totally on top of his game as well, at the Masters. The fans can't wait as they've never seen an in-form Woods vs. Spieth at the Masters. That's what we were going to get at London this year. Instead, we learn that there will be no Woods - Spieth dual at the Masters because Nike is paying Spieth to try out some new equipment and go for the lowest score on record in an exhibition.

I totally agree with you, but this golfing analogy is entirely superfluous, we're all running fans, we understand.

Fingers crossed for London to see an incredible Kipsang/Ghebrselassie/Bekele/everyone else showdown in the men's and a Keitany world record in the women's and the Nike event to be a damp squib.

Maybe it's time for an "unlimited" format where downhill, motorpacing, in-race IV, domestiques providing physical pushing, whatever, is allowed. Make marathoning and Extreme Sport.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Will not happen.

I will bet every penny I have, and will ever earn, that the marathon WR stays above 2:00:00 until such a time as we openly allow some kind of performance boosting supplements and/or apparatus.

You mean MORE than the ones they are already taking?

The IAAF is okay with doping. Just bring the money.

Sure, whatever. Doping is not my concern.

However, as Rojo said, the sub2 is not close.

6 seconds per mile. So after 10 milesat current WR pace, they would already be a minute behind what they need.

Even in the 30k WR (run on a track) is slower than 1:59:59 pace.

If you ask someone to break 2:00, that's like expecting someone to break the 1000 and 1200 world records enroute to running a 3:38 mile.

Lord Coe at another party for Jos Hermens. Yannis Pitisiladis is there with Szabo and Geb.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/galaxy-of-stars-attend-global-sports-communications-anniversary-41484

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/historic/32010549.html

http://athleticsillustrated.com/editorial/jos-hermens-i-have-never-been-involved-or-assisted-any-athlete-at-anytime-to-dope/

http://www.ethiomedia.com/newpress/kenenisa_alem_techale_story.html

The first story in the ethiomedia article says that no autopsy was done. In the second story, Jos Hermens states that an autopsy was done but nothing was found.

Hey Jos Hermens.

Which story is the correct story?

Plebescite wrote:

Maybe it's time for an "unlimited" format where downhill, motorpacing, in-race IV, domestiques providing physical pushing, whatever, is allowed. Make marathoning and Extreme Sport.

Then Felix Baumgartner will be very disappointed. He jumped from an altitude of only 39km. Had he added 3km, he would be the world record holder for the `marathon', with a time of roughly ten minutes and breaking the sound barrier in the process. (See

.)

grox wrote:

Plebescite wrote:

Maybe it's time for an "unlimited" format where downhill, motorpacing, in-race IV, domestiques providing physical pushing, whatever, is allowed. Make marathoning and Extreme Sport.

Then Felix Baumgartner will be very disappointed. He jumped from an altitude of only 39km. Had he added 3km, he would be the world record holder for the `marathon', with a time of roughly ten minutes and breaking the sound barrier in the process. (See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Stratos

.)

Not sure what the parameters were, but if he went at an angle large enough to land ~15m away from the point directly under him at the top of the jump, then the hypotenuse would be greater than a marathon.

To make it even easier, he could have jumped in the opposite direction of the Earth's rotation, and also because of the curvature of the earth, the angle need not be so big as to gain the extra 15km, as he would have had some additional descent.

Eliud is inspirational, running 2:03 and winning Olympic gold at the ripe old age of 47, just amazing.

Rojo, I think you should try to publish these views in as many high-profile media as possible.

I'm sure the NYTimes, Washington Post, etc will have some articles on this soon.

You should either be a primary source as a running expert for these articles, and emphasize that Nike killed the most promising marathon race of all time (London 2017 Bekele vs Kipchoge), or write an op-ed of your own stating this.

But it's gotta be on a big news site to get Nike to care, because Nike's 2 hr project is more of a marketing gimmick directed toward average shoe-wearers, not sub-14 dudes that read LetsRun.

I will say though, that we're approaching this from a selfish perspective:

We want to see Kipchoge race Bekele in London.

What's better, Eliud vs Kenenisa, or a huge marketing campaign for elite marathon running and tens of millions of dollars into the sport?

I'd say it's a case of a short-term legendary event versus public interest in the sport.

We shouldn't have to choose between the two of these events though, Nike should leave Kipchoge out of this to run London 2017. Their shoe geniuses can't come up with anything that would get Kipchoge running faster than the presence of Bekele threatening to defeat him.

Lenny LEonard wrote:

Not sure what the parameters were, but if he went at an angle large enough to land ~15m away from the point directly under him at the top of the jump, then the hypotenuse would be greater than a marathon.

Are you considering a flat earth and a sideways jump that would go in straight line? I get 16.1km in this (not very realistic) model.

Lenny LEonard wrote:

To make it even easier, he could have jumped in the opposite direction of the Earth's rotation, and also because of the curvature of the earth, the angle need not be so big as to gain the extra 15km, as he would have had some additional descent.

That is assuming we count the distance in a referential tied to the surface of earth. And we have to take into account the trajectory is a parabola, at least in some referential. An the wind resistance must affect the result a little. Plus the earth rotation, as you mention.

It turns out we do need scientists for the sub-two-hour marathon.

I completely agree with the entire statement you posted, rojo.

Some of us have been saying for a while that it's a big mistake to focus on times and distances in T&F rather than on competition. This sub 2 baloney is another extreme example.

Eleven wrote:

Middling in Distance wrote:

So it seems all they need is a point to point downhill course?

Could do it tomorrow surely?!

Just drop a guy from 26.2 miles high.

Pretty sure Felix Baumgartner has that record

Bad math, he's just short my bad

disgraceful_admin wrote:

I will say though, that we're approaching this from a selfish perspective:

We want to see Kipchoge race Bekele in London.

What's better, Eliud vs Kenenisa, or a huge marketing campaign for elite marathon running and tens of millions of dollars into the sport?

I'd say it's a case of a short-term legendary event versus public interest in the sport.

We shouldn't have to choose between the two of these events though, Nike should leave Kipchoge out of this to run London 2017. Their shoe geniuses can't come up with anything that would get Kipchoge running faster than the presence of Bekele threatening to defeat him.

We are the public interest in the sport.

This is a Nike advert.

Nothing selfish about wanting the sport of distance running to be something other than an entirely malleable and valueless vehicle for the promotion of Nike and/or other corporate/financial interests.

Forget Baumgartner, the boys on Apollo 10 have had the no-limits-relative-to-Earth-record since 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Fastest

unlimited wrote:

Forget Baumgartner, the boys on Apollo 10 have had the no-limits-relative-to-Earth-record since 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Fastest

(They sneaked under the 2 hour mark by a good 1:59.56+)