Grace Ping not allowed to run Nike Nationals

Yes, a person who runs for the HS team could end up running for the HS for 5 or 6 years. I teach at a small-ish rural school in a state where middle schoolers are allowed to compete on the HS teams and not just in XC or track. We had two 8th graders on our girls basketball team last year. The team wasn't very good and had a coach who most of the upper class man hated and didn't want to play for hence the need for 8th graders. There is girl who is a junior who just finished her 5th year running for the HS and a boy who just ran 4th year of XC as a sophmore.

One poster asked how they could run for a school they don't even attend, but the case could be made that a student actually is a part of the school system not just one school. In other words if you attend ABC middle then you go to XYZ high school so you're already in the system. In some ways a gifted athlete is no different than an academically gifted student who moves ahead in a subject and is working a grade level (or two or three) ahead or there age group peers.

I agree with Nike. If you let grace compete that means that you would have to let every middle schooler compete, whether they are on a high school team or not, which changes the whole dynamic. They should have never let her go to regionals, but I think it was fairly easy to just sign up online as unattached and "slip through" the system. I've signed up for the race before and they don't really ask info about being in high school, just general stuff.

Runner2135 wrote:

If you let grace compete that means that you would have to let every middle schooler compete...

No flood gates would open. A runner simply has to be fast enough to get in. Very simple.

NXN wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

NXN is abiding by a state rule...plain and simple.

NXN is not being held in Utah.

It doesn't matter that it's not being held in Utah. NXN still needs to abide by state rules otherwise the athletes risk getting in trouble with their state athletic association. Nike is looking out for Grace on this one, just as they do all the other kids that go to NXN. (hard to believe I just wrote Nike is looking out for anyone, but I do feel that way with NXN) The athletic life expectancy of phenoms like her is generally about 7 years, give or take a few. She will likely peak her freshman and sophomore years. After that it's up to nature, but either way she has a ton of great results in her future.

As an example, many states do not allow the kids who compete at NXN to receive more than a certain amount of gear to take home. So while some kids get to take home new spikes, backpacks, clothes, etc. with no problem, other kids have to buy it otherwise they risk getting in trouble.

NXN is extremely well run. I've never been to a high school race that is managed with such professionalism.

Yes, Nike folks are sticklers about getting waivers signed for these events, and usually the HS AD has to fill one out. Who would Nike contact on behalf of a middle schooler, who presumably does not have a HS AD looking out for her eligibility yet? This wouldn't come into play as an issue for the regional since no gear is involved. Although, to register in our region, one has to list HS attended and AD contact info. I wonder what Grace entered in those fields. Anyway, hard to see how Nike could have done it differently.

Has anyone considered that maybe we're overthinking it a bit? Nevermind the state rules; Is it even a good idea to let middle schoolers run w/high schoolers? It would seem to me that it puts an inordinant amount of pressure on the middle schooler to both do the training required and compete at a higher level than necessary.

Believe, me... I'm not trying to be critical here, but I thought I read Grace runs up to 45 mpw, though she runs mostly for time now, which probably means she's running even more? Is it a good idea to aim for a middle school peak, even if she does prove to be an outlier? And this is true of many middle school girls.

As an example, I have a 12-yr old daughter who plays competitive soccer. She did swim last summer, but mostly it's just soccer & soccer camps. She has run in the low 23s for 5k (I know, that sucks by letsrun standards) at over a mile above sea level. I've acknowledged her talent in running as she always seems to want to lead the soccer "warmup" at practice. But I refuse to force her to start running and competing unless it's her idea.

These kids should be having fun, doing kids stuff. I suspect that many (most?) of these great middle school girls will be mediocre or never to be heard from again by age 16. Contrast that w/someone like this Brie Oakley phenom who played soccer growing up and didn't start formal running until junior year of high school. She is now the best runner in the nation and crushed Katie Rainsberger's state record in the fall (Katie was just 4th at NCAAs for Oregon as a frosh in case anyone missed it.

Am I wrong here...?

Nxner wrote:

Yes, Nike folks are sticklers about getting waivers signed for these events, and usually the HS AD has to fill one out. Who would Nike contact on behalf of a middle schooler, who presumably does not have a HS AD looking out for her eligibility yet? This wouldn't come into play as an issue for the regional since no gear is involved. Although, to register in our region, one has to list HS attended and AD contact info. I wonder what Grace entered in those fields. Anyway, hard to see how Nike could have done it differently.

Ahem, parents sign waivers. Not ADs. Okay.

Oh? wrote:

Otherwise, let middle schoolers compete at the middle school level and stop pushing for such young kids to train at a higher level so early on - it would be better for their development, both mentally and physically.

Anyone else think it is funny that american's training from 8-16 stunts their development while east africans training from 8-16 is the key to their future success?

I have no clue how she is training. But there are enough of the phenoms that are running 30mpw that I hesitate to jump to the conlcusion that they are stunting their development.

Local burn out wrote:

Has anyone considered that maybe we're overthinking it a bit? Nevermind the state rules; Is it even a good idea to let middle schoolers run w/high schoolers? It would seem to me that it puts an inordinant amount of pressure on the middle schooler to both do the training required and compete at a higher level than necessary.

Am I wrong here...?

Yes, you are wrong here. You are overthinking it quite a bit. Age has nothing to do with kids and pressure. Age has nothing to with adults and pressure.

Why are high school coaches so afraid of running against Grace Ping? It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with coaches wanting to win at all costs. Banning people from competing is their only hope to "win."

?????????? wrote:

From the Farm wrote:

Odd to me a state would let JH athletes compete with HS athletes. Looking at the Minnesota State Championship there are a lot of JH girls in the results. Where do they go as upperclassman?

+1

How can a middle school runner represent a school they don't attend?

You do realize that in a majority of the central US you'll find small towns have schools grades 7-12 or K-12 right? I coach in a small 7-12 school and we have 8th graders on varsity all the time- sometimes due to lack of numbers and other times because they are better than the older students. If we outlawed 7th and 8th grade students from varsity competition, there'd be a lot of schools that couldn't even have a team in some sports.

asdfasdfa wrote:

Oh? wrote:

Otherwise, let middle schoolers compete at the middle school level and stop pushing for such young kids to train at a higher level so early on - it would be better for their development, both mentally and physically.

Anyone else think it is funny that american's training from 8-16 stunts their development while east africans training from 8-16 is the key to their future success?

I have no clue how she is training. But there are enough of the phenoms that are running 30mpw that I hesitate to jump to the conlcusion that they are stunting their development.

Soccer and basketball and volleyball and swimming and dance/gymnastics are training. I don't see the point in making girls run 30 mpw before freshman year in high school. I guess I am the outlier. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out...

This is one reason our family decided to stay out of high school and collegiate running. We believe in open competitions with eligibility decided by your gender, age (when reasonable), and how fast you are (when the field has to be limited). Anything else in my opinion is just politics/bureaucracy and is un-American in spirit.

There are plenty of competitions for youth and adults that honor the above principle. The ones we have found are USATF junior championships, open track meets, and numerous road races.

YES you are. Everybody has to live their own life. They don't all need to be sheep.

asdfasdfa wrote:

Oh? wrote:

Otherwise, let middle schoolers compete at the middle school level and stop pushing for such young kids to train at a higher level so early on - it would be better for their development, both mentally and physically.

Anyone else think it is funny that american's training from 8-16 stunts their development while east africans training from 8-16 is the key to their future success?

I have no clue how she is training. But there are enough of the phenoms that are running 30mpw that I hesitate to jump to the conlcusion that they are stunting their development.

So true.

handelandj wrote:

I also agree that Nike should make it the same for all states - either all middle schoolers are eligible for nationals, or none are - regardless of the states rule, it should be the same for everyone. Just my opinion.

Exactly. And the worst thing you can do is change or interpret a rule RIGHT BEFORE THE NATIONAL MEET!!!

I said before there is NOT going to be bunches of 7th or 8th graders who are capable of qualifying for the national meet. Even if they let them compete, it might be YEARS between runners able to qualify.

Somebody mentioned Nike "protecting" Grace Ping. How do you know she would even be running for her high school team. Many of the top athletes in a lot of sports don't even compete on their high school team because the competition is far inferior than they are used to.

Somebody else mentioned having an AD sign off. Who would the AD be for a homeschooled student or a student attending a private school that didn't even have any sports?

collossal overreaction...... wrote:

Somebody mentioned Nike "protecting" Grace Ping.

"Protecting" = her family refused to sign an agreement to be coached by Salazar.

I say run everyone together. Middle school, high school, college. If we want to bring out the greatness we need to race everyone together.

ADs do have to sign off that participants are eligible to compete in their home district AND write a letter to NXN outlining what their participants can keep in order to maitain their HS eligibility. Not only that, this letter then has to also be emailed to the governing sports body in that state. As far as home schooled and private schools? A home school is a school. That family would sign the paperwork and have to email it to the governing body in their state if they would like their child to be eligible to run again. I am also a parent of an NXN runner. Nike defaults to the rules of each state because it is the only administrative structure that makes sense. If ADs and states sign off that students are eligible, then they are. If they happen to be in 7th grade, so be it if the state says they are. The only thing that should not have happened is allowing grace to run at NXR. Doubling down on that mistake and letting her run at NNX would not have been a good idea. However, she did not need approval from her school or state to run at NXR, so I can see how a miscommunication could have happ Ned. O by the way, I have been around sports my entire life and NXN is one of the best run, most enjoyable experiences an athlete and parent could ever have. Even for my 8th grader.

Former AD and NXN parent wrote:

Nike defaults to the rules of each state because it is the only administrative structure that makes sense. ... Even for my 8th grader.

It does not make sense. Grace Ping competed as a 7th grader. Banned as an 8th grader. Nonsense.

The best against the best at the top meet for K-12. Otherwise it is not the top meet. NXN is now a coach-must-win-manipulated joke.