GIVE THOSE 5th AVE GUYS CREDIT!!

most famous downhill of recent years is Geoffrey's 2"03'02 in boston

it has listed 135m drop

( i'm not including the ups/downs in this course or the wind, but just working with overall 135m drop which we assume for general estimate is from gun-tape )

his actual speed was :

42195 / ( 2"03'02 * 60 ) = 5.716m/s

his speed adjustment with 122m drop is : 9.81 * ( 135 / 42195 ) = 0.0314m/s

factor adjustment of 0.0314 / 5.716 = 0.00549 or ratio of 1.00549

-> corrected time for flat course of 2"03'02 * 1.00549 = 2"03'42

or 39s help

for elites, boston , assuming 0 wind, is a ~ 40s aided course courtesy of the downhill

Thank you for the calculations. Even tho that is not my field, it was very interesting. So, bottom line, based on your math, are you saying that the course in NYC is about a second or two on the fast side for men running at 3:50 mile pace?

Just eyeballing the times with the runners that ran those times, the times look legit to me. Not at all the 5 sec difference that LetsRun suggests. If that were the case, everyone in the race would have had a sub-par day that day. Very unlikely.

new york course is barely 1.5s aided for elites running 3'50 pace but more like 2+s for 4'20 women :

has 27' drop in 5,280' ->

for a 3'50.00 track guy :

track speed is 1609.344 / 230 = 6.997m/s

drop is worth speed of 9.81 * ( 27 / 5280 ) = 0.05m/s

correction factor to time of 0.05 / 6.997 = 0.00717 or 1.00717

-> time of 3'50 / 1.00717 = 3'48.36

or 1.64s

for a 4'20.00 track gal :

track speed is 1609.344 / 260 = 6.19m/s

drop is worth speed of 9.81 * ( 27 / 5280 ) = 0.05m/s

correction factor to time of 0.05 / 6.19 = 0.00808 0r 1.00808

-> time of 4'20 / 1.00808 = 4'17.91

or 2.09s

Very good. Thanks!

Just as you can't simply check the net wind over a course and calculate the affect in time (because headwind more than negates tailwind), so too you can't simply look at net elevation change for a course and conclude the effect on times. If it was 27 ft down net with no uphills, that would be a much faster course than one with, say, 27 down net but an uphill of 15 and two downhills totaling 42 ft, which probably approximates the actual 5th avenue course. You lose more on the uphill than you gain on the downhill, by feet of elevation change. On the downhill, you also get higher wind resistance obviously from the higher speeds, which has an effect on your willpower as well as your energy. My sense from seeing this race a lot is that it has a small effect on times, making them a second or two faster, but circumstances can be equal or greater to that effect--having a prime for the half mile lead was a factor here, as they went out in 1:53, a great half time for these quality guys to hit with most of the downhill left in the race.

It should be a bit faster just cus no turns and thus not having to run extra distance out in lane 2. But not much. Calculus says maybe 1.6 seconds.

Jenkins had run 3:35 in his only 1500 of the year to this point. That's a 3:52 mile. You always improve doing something a second time and with the caliber of competition and the money on the line, 3:49 wasn't out of the question.

Centro ran 3:50 on a 200 meter indoor track before he was in peak shape back in Feb. why couldn't he run 3:49 a couple weeks after the Olympics?

Alexander ran 3:34 at Tracktown and beat Blankenship, Jenkins, Andrews and Torrence. That's a 3:51 mile. He ran 3:50 at NYC.

Murphy at 1:42 for 800 meters, actually considers himself more of a miler. He better damn well be able to run a 3:52 then, don't you think?

Blankenship ran 3:34 in Belgium just days after his 3:53 in NYC. That's better than 3:53.

O'Hare ran 3:53. He's run 3:52.

And on it goes all the way down the list.

These guys just plain flew. It was a race to remember. Maybe (probably) the best NYC road mile ever.

learn to read / think

wind was 0 consideration

is this a joke ?

of course we woud expect 0 wind before for estimate

add / minus whatever wind you want, but i like to assume 0 wind until told

no

it woud be negligible difference assuming guys knew course from at least walking it before

the only occasion variety woud matter woud be huge hills or declines, but those are not serious races

no

the variations you suggest woud make little difference to final clocking

negligible

eh ??

vice-versa

not for granite-hard elites

& i saw Maree win 1st one in '81 live on TV, so unless you saw that one live on tv at least, it lacks impact & you wouda already said you saw him win back then, so you come years later to the party...

Whatever. To see 3 guys racing at breakneck speed the last 100 meters that ended in two 3:49's and a 3:50 with the Oympic champ getting edged at the line because of a look left was freaking thrilling!!