I don't know. And neither do you.
Suspicious? Absolutely. But at the moment it's all just speculation by bored fans.
I don't know. And neither do you.
Suspicious? Absolutely. But at the moment it's all just speculation by bored fans.
rojo wrote:
Huddle, when asked for her thoughts on Ayana’s time, said:
“These places might be a bit mobile…Who knows? That’s a very, very fast time.â€
What does this mean?
I think Magness has been implying that all of the low 14 runners are dopers. I am not defending him jist trying to clarify.
rojo wrote:
George Hirsch wrote:He is not in a position to know this. He is seriously detracting from the overall effort against cheating by making claims he has zero ability to back up. He dos not work for the IAAF.
I think Magness is hurting the antidoping fight by saying that and I say that as an admirer of his. You can't just say something is laughable because it's fast.
To me, a coach should know the idea that a 14:05 athlete (and come on she's run 14:12 with horrible pacing) running 29:17for 10k isn't that shocking. So unless you were already calling her a doper before tonight, you shouldn't be doing it now.
At cornell, we had a couple guys run faster than 29:17 and none of them were sub 14:00 in the 5000.
We're about to update our 10k recap with this sentiment.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/08/history-rio-almaz-ayana-smashes-womens-10000-world-record-2917-45-greatest-womens-10000-ever-molly-huddle-breaks-american-record-6th/Here is what we wrote:
LRCwrote:
Whenever a seemingly unbreakable record is broken, one that was set by someone who may have confessed to doping, people are going to speculate whether the new mark is itself legitimate. We hadn’t even finished recapping the race and the messageboard was already exploding with speculation (Ayana 10,000 Meter WR!!! 29:17:46 *Who in the top 8 isnt doping? Rio 10k)
Here’s why Ayana’s mark could be legitimate. First, she’s already run 14:12 for 5000 this year. Greg McMillan’s conversion calculator converts today’s 29:17 to a 14:06, which certainly is a time that seems doable for Ayana if you’ve watched any of her poorly rabbitted WR attempts at 5000. So if you weren’t already accusing Ayana of being on drugs before today’s run, you shouldn’t just start because she 29:17 as already was in the ballpark equivalent of the old world record.
Then you add in the variables. Today’s weather — mid-60’s and still — was great for running fast. Ayana had a de facto rabbit for the first half of the race in Nawowuna.
At the post race press conference, the Ethiopian translator called Nawowuna a pacer saying, “(Ayana) was comfortable with the pacerâ€.
Ayana ran that 14:12 in early June and has had an extra two months to peak. And it’s very possible Ayana is a better 10k runner than 5k, so those equivalencies may not be generous enough.
Plus, there have been very few races in history where the world’s top 10,000 runners have gotten together and tried to run fast. Before today, six of the 10 fastest women’s 10k’s in history had been run in championship finals, and those races are usually run in hot conditions without a rabbit. Today was a rare opportunity with great weather and an unofficial rabbit. Ayana in the only second 10,000 of her life took full advantage.
Not everyone is a believer, however. Sweden’s Sarah Lahti, who was 12th in 31:28.43 (a national record), suggested Ayana was not clean after the race. Ayana was asked for comment and, through a translator, responded as follows:
“Three basic things. I did my training, specially 500 and 10,000. Number two, I praise the Lord. God has given me everything, every blessing. My doping is my training. My doping is Jesus. Otherwise, nothing. I am crystal clear.â€
Huddle, when asked for her thoughts on Ayana’s time, said:
“These places might be a bit mobile…Who knows? That’s a very, very fast time.â€
TrackCoach wrote:
I am not a Magness supporter in the slightest for the simple reason he attempted to take away the champ's title on a TKO. When you have a beef with Superman, you don't pull on his cape, you need kryptonite, if you don't have any kryptonite, you best leave Superman alone.
With that said, I have to agree with Magness on the Ayana situation. Point blank, Ayana dominated the strongest 10k field in history and made it look too easy. Also, Ayana is like Genzebe, in Ethiopia her victories are barely celebrated and the other Ethiopian athletes seem to keep their distance from her. Ethiopians know there is something toxic about Genzebe and Ayana.
Your reading of the tea leaves regarding her relationship with the other Ethiopians is absurd. It's like one of those Sherlock Holmes stories where someone with "peculiar square-toed boots" must have done the deed. If she is shunned by her compatriots, and I assert we can't really know this from our vantage point, it could just as well be for other reasons. Perhaps she is not personable? Perhaps she made statements against the political elite and others are not so courageous about political matters? Perhaps she has Eritrean relatives? Perhaps she said something against the Coptic religious hierarchy? We do not know and it's frankly mean-spirited and unhelpful to speculate. The anti-doping effort needs testing by officials who are above and beyond reproach--not here-say.
Stevie is a massive tool but is 100% right in this case. Totally fraudulent race. You know Coe has to be embarrassed. IAAF has egg on their face. Congrats to Huddle - first clean finisher.
At least Rojo is the only sane person on this thread. Go look at her dominance this year. Women run maybe 3 hard 10ks every 4 years. If the weather isn't there on that one particular day you have to wait over a year for another hard effort.
This time isn't shocking at all.
Who cares about Steve madness. He is a loser
Has bad judgment?
Galen MF Rupp wrote:
Steve Magness is a massive, massive loser. ...... Go F yourself Steve.
He's a "loser?
quote]Here's how I take it wrote:
Magness is a loser, a failure as a runner, and a lousy coach.[/quote]
He's a fraud?
NGOLO wrote:
Magness and Ross Tucker are both journalistic frauds.
Donald Trump is poisoning society. Discrediting someone by calling him a loser? Good lord, he has the right to an opinion. I think it's fair to say the sport is absolutely at a point where all times like that are considered suspect. Sure - maybe she deserves the benefit of the doubt - but is it really unreasonable to question it? But to say his words don't matter because he is a loser, a fraud, or can't be trusted makes the posters here just as bad.
I agree with many of you. In general, Magness does a tremendous disservice to his cause every time he opens his mouth and makes a statement with no evidential basis to prove it other than an understanding that the system is f-ed up. I agree. The system is f-ed. But to change it we need hard evidence, new leadership (sign the petition), excellent journalism, and a collective coalition of athletes and regulators willing to fight for change.
Wait what?? Betsy Sania trains at Bowerman TC with all the white Americans. Did she dope only because she's Kenyan? And Huddle, who dropped a massive PR is clean because of what? She's white? Or something else?
Help me follow your reasoning..
bobgob wrote:
Remind us again why Steve Magness is famous? Being a great coach? An excellent Journalist perhaps? No, he came to people's attention because of the accusations he made against Salazar and Rupp.
So why are you surprised he's accusing/insinuating that Ayana is doping?
It's what Magness is know for. It's what he does best.
That's not true. He was famous for his coaching and his website/book before. At least that's where I know him from.
Phantasy Star wrote:
Stevie is a massive tool but is 100% right in this case. Totally fraudulent race. You know Coe has to be embarrassed. IAAF has egg on their face. Congrats to Huddle - first clean finisher.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but Huddle smashed the American record today. Does she get a pass?
LRCwrote:Not everyone is a believer, however. Sweden’s Sarah Lahti, who was 12th in 31:28.43 (a national record), suggested Ayana was not clean after the race.
A runner who has herself PRd with more than a minute this year, and almost 30 seconds in this actuall race, without the extra mental boost of a medal in sight over the last ten laps. Seems legit.
Yes she "gets a pass." Ran a logical, sensible time. Is not linked to a doping coach or federation. Pretty much the exact opposite of Ayana.
Lakisha wrote:
Phantasy Star wrote:Stevie is a massive tool but is 100% right in this case. Totally fraudulent race. You know Coe has to be embarrassed. IAAF has egg on their face. Congrats to Huddle - first clean finisher.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but Huddle smashed the American record today. Does she get a pass?
Funny thing is, without Aprot setting the pace and Ayana maintaining it, there's no way Huddle would have ran an American Record.
Phantasy Star wrote:
Yes she "gets a pass." Ran a logical, sensible time. Is not linked to a doping coach or federation. Pretty much the exact opposite of Ayana.
lol. Knocking over 30 secs of your PR (after having run the race for a decade) and crushing the AR while having to run by yourself and go to lane 2 half the race isn't suspicious?? Oh right, I forgot, she's white and American, my bad!
(I love your "All in front of her are "linked to a doping......Federation." How convenient. So after all these years of East Africans destroying US and Euro (and everyone else's) runners, because there has been some doping in these countries, people like you can now say: EVERY E. African is a doper, if they run fast or beat my favorite white runner."
Get real. It is actually possible to be fast and not be a doper. Really.
Who cares what this dude has to say? He's acting like he's the only person who thinks this race was doped. Innocent until tested positive and there's nothing he can do about it. Doped or not I enjoyed finally seeing an actual fast race in a championship instead of a tactical one.
U R AN IDIOT wrote:
[quote]So after all these years of East Africans destroying US and Euro (and everyone else's) runners, because there has been some doping in these countries, people like you can now say: EVERY E. African is a doper, if they run fast or beat my favorite white runner."
Get real. It is actually possible to be fast and not be a doper. Really.
I don't know from what planet you're just flown from, but the reality on this planet is that since 1992 there has not been a single world record holder in distance running, who would not be doped. The advantage of EPO doping was simply so large (something like 40 sec. in the 10 km) that clean athletes had no chance.
It's really hilarious that after the doping masquarade in East Africa has been repeatedly revealed in TV documentaries and about 30 Kenyans have been busted only during the last 2-3 years, there are still some people believing that long distance running is clean.
Phantasy Star wrote:
Yes she "gets a pass." Ran a logical, sensible time. Is not linked to a doping coach or federation. Pretty much the exact opposite of Ayana.
Translation = She's white
Logical? Sensible? She tried to stick to the leading group mid race when they were running at a ridiculous pace. And was able to run a massive PB and NR because of it. Steve Cram pointed this out in the commentary and was surprised at how well she was hanging on.
She came 6th in an historic race in which 4 out of the 5 people ahead of her ran sub 30 minutes. Only the top 8 ran sub 31 minutes.
Her winning time was 30:13.17. She beat fellow American Emily Infeld in the trials by 5 seconds. In Rio? She beat her by 1 minute and 13 seconds.
But sure, go ahead and accuse all the other 5 athletes of doping.
Sports Fan wrote:
I don't know from what planet you're just flown from, but the reality on this planet is that since 1992 there has not been a single world record holder in distance running, who would not be doped. The advantage of EPO doping was simply so large (something like 40 sec. in the 10 km) that clean athletes had no chance.
What stopped Americans from using EPO, starting in 1992?