RE Semenya: Is LetsRun.com "continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports."

+1000

Women's rights in athletics wrote:

Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:

There is more that biologically separates men and women than a vagina and a penis. The one and only thing that apparently makes Caster a woman is a vagina/lack of a penis? Why ignore the y chromosome, the testosterone levels, the internal testes, the obvious superior muscular development, etc., all not found in an xx female, in favor of the one organ that, but for a developmental mishap during gestation, wouldn't be there in the first place (not to mention the lack of a uterus, ovaries, etc.)? Women aren't women just because they don't have a penis.

Yes, well said. Thank you

RockyIV wrote:

This is a good fight.

Feminazi vs Silver Spoon Bigot

Rojo will win this. He has thick skin and has proven over the years that he will never try to change. "I am proud to be called a bigot"

0.01% wrote:

0.01%? That's 1 out of every 10,000,000 million people.

There are roughly 1,000 medals awarded at the Olympics. So, 0.00001% of the world's population. So, there are 1,000 times more athletes putting females at risk of losing than there are Olympic medalists. That is truly amazing.

.01% is not one out of every 10 million people (or even 10 million million people, as you wrote).

Let's do some math:

1% = 1/100

0.1% = 1/1000

0.01% = 1/10,000

I thought this thread needed pics.

Decent respect and consideration for our fellow human beings is critical. Please, please continue to be respectful and kind towards Semenya personally, and I would suggest taking a strong stance on your view of respect towards Semenya herself as well as compassion for her situation. If you don't do that, then arguing against her competing with women will lose its authority. [/quote]

Intergalactic, your sentiments apply equally to Semenya herself, right? In other words, she has a duty to treat other people and athletes ethically and fairly. Tucker and others have said that Semenya "should not be blamed" for a situation caused by the CAS. Someone else said that "Semenya is supported by the S.A.A.A." These statements presume or want us to think that Semenya has no sense of right and wrong, no moral conscious, that she is clueless of the change in her fitness brought on by a ruling that stopped her required medication. In other words, poor ole Caster has no idea what she is doing. She just doesn't understand how it was that she couldn't win previously, but now she destroys world champions, leaving them seconds adrift.

No, I'm afraid Caster knows exactly what she is doing. It is called pure Will-To-Power and it has nothing to do with ethics, fairness, or respect. Semenya is glad to crush, dethrone and steal Diamond League profits from legitimate female world champions. Anyone with actual ethics would recognize and acknowledge the obvious cause and effect. But $emenya plays dumb. She is worthy of no respect.

rojo wrote:

2) At one point i said to her, I think you and I are going to have to disagree. I'm coming at that solely from the perspective of a fan/expert of track and field. It's clear ot me you are only coming at it as someone interested in transgedner rights, and then I was blown away to learn she was the captain of her college cross country team.

Rojo,

She is a card-carrying SJW who has been indoctrinated by the regressive left.

People like her hurl buzz words like "bigot" and "racist" at those they disagree with in order to try to shut down conversation. They do this because they know that if an actual conversation takes place their views will be exposed as irrational.

Please give us her name. If she's publishing an article then we'll find out anyways. These ridiculous views need to be vigorously criticized.

I do agree with you that Semenya should respect her fellow athletes. If Semenya feels like she is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and laughing about it all the way to the podium and the bank, then certainly that is wrong. I don't believe that is the situation. If I see evidence that it is the situation, then I will certainly judge Semenya for competing disingenuously and condemn her for doing so, but, again, I see no evidence to support that claim.

Semenya has considered herself a woman her whole life and has been considered by her community to be one as well (a "masculine" one, but a woman no less), and she was told she could compete in the women's division and so she is. I am completely open to any evidence that there is a sinister motive, but I haven't seen any.

Yea we are going to find out when the ridiculous article comes out. Frankly you should expose her name and practices before the article is run so that her editor can see her terrible tactics. This isn't journalism, it is an opinion hit piece. That's fine, but man did she burn a bridge with that kind of an email.

Sara Germano didn't run track. I frankly can't think of another "influential" female writer that write about track consistently (that's sad).

smile wrote:

She is a card-carrying SJW who has been indoctrinated by the regressive left.

They are not the left. They are a weird caricature based on a bourgeois-friendly issue.

People like her hurl buzz words like "bigot" and "racist" at those they disagree with in order to try to shut down conversation. They do this because they know that if an actual conversation takes place their views will be exposed as irrational.

True. And using those words as political weapons robs them of meaning, for example to describe the systemic racism of cops shooting black people.

ABC... wrote:

smile wrote:

Please give us her name. If she's publishing an article then we'll find out anyways. These ridiculous views need to be vigorously criticized.

Eleni Schirmer?

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/open-letter-south-african-runner-caster-semenya/story?id=40657017

"Boston Marathon: What we're running for...Elite women leave the starting line in Hopkinton, Massachusetts, in the 119th Boston Marathon." By Eleni Schirmer | Apr 18, 2016

XYZ... wrote:

ABC... wrote:

Eleni Schirmer?

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/open-letter-south-african-runner-caster-semenya/story?id=40657017

"Boston Marathon: What we're running for...Elite women leave the starting line in Hopkinton, Massachusetts, in the 119th Boston Marathon." By Eleni Schirmer | Apr 18, 2016

http://espn.go.com/espnw/voices/article/15223311/an-inspirational-essay-boston-marathon-runners

Fits, but there is no evidence that she was captain of her college cross country team - Carleton College.

Fans of the sport will never be able to reason with people that are interested in transgender rights because they equate transgender rights with doing anything that anyone wants with regard to gender. I understand their fight, but as a sports fan I believe that a line has to be drawn in some way.

The unfortunate thing about the entire issue is little to nothing can be done to change someones mind so it is borderline pointless to even have the discussion. If you came out and said you think all sexes should compete against each other this same "journalist" would be up in arms over your comments.

This is one of those scenarios where no matter what you say, if it isn't exactly their opinion, you are wrong and a bad person in their eyes.

asdfasdfdsf wrote:

Don't give in to SJWs; just laugh at their absurdity.

This. She is using your name for financial gain (from the article). I wouldn't even bother to comment or give her any material to run with. Another cowardly journalist she is.

It's not the discussion per se, but how this website is presenting the issue, which generally has had no nuance or insightful analysis. Just "ew, she's a freak (*GROSS*)." There is definitely a conversation to be had with such a tough issue as where and how inter-sex athletes should compete, but you guys are treating this like middle schoolers would - immature, shallow, moronic, disrespectful, and unprofessional. The criticism, frankly, is just and deserved.

The mind bogglingly stupid "Ashton Eaton should compete as a female at the Olympics" thread (or whatever the hell that trash was) YOU created is a good reference point to start.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7336956&page=2

chilhowee wrote:You saw the angle of the piece in the NYT Magazine written recently by Ruth Padawer. It ignored the obvious cause and effect reality of Semenya's post medicated performances, focusing instead on perceived mistreatment of intersex/ and or Trans athletes, going back decades and painting a picture of injustice. The title of Padawer's piece: "The Humilating Practice of Sex-Testing Female Athletes" was itself an attempt to recast a routine gynecological procedure as something invasive and sinister.

As far as sex-testing being humiliating and invasive, many people would probably feel that it is. The question is whether it is a reasonable requirement for someone who chooses to participate in a sport where being a man or a woman can make a serious difference in the outcome of the sport.

By comparison, both men and women who choose to compete in top-level track and field have to agree to have strangers watch them urinate, as is described in detail (including quotes by Emily Enfeld) in this recent Washington Post article:

This drug testing is probably felt to be humiliating and invasive by some athletes, but they choose to give up some privacy in order to compete because doping makes such a difference in the outcome of the sport.

Where I disagree is that women ONLY should compete in women's sports. That's women with ONLY xx chromosomes not xxy nor any other aberration. If an xx woman naturally has higher testosterone, then she is gifted with rarity just as Bolt is gifted in a way many men aren't. But I wholeheartedly disagree that any person other than one with ONLY xx chromosomes should be allowed to compete in women's sports.

ABC... wrote:

smile wrote:

Please give us her name. If she's publishing an article then we'll find out anyways. These ridiculous views need to be vigorously criticized.

Eleni Schirmer?

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/open-letter-south-african-runner-caster-semenya/story?id=40657017

She did not run for Carleton.

From the sound of the article, the author would support a single undifferentiated category for all athletes to compete in, instead of segregating track and field by sex.

You can make a rational argument for a single category, but you also have to recognize that a single category would eliminate most athletic opportunities for women at the top levels of competition.

I don't think you're being bigoted, and LRC is definitely an influential voice and I applaud your reasoned reply and reject her overwrought rhetoric about lots of people dying (!).

However, you really lost me on the "I'm trying to save women's sports." That was a little grandiose, dude.