Why, wejo?

Contrary to what Dumbya is trying to tell us, Michigan does NOT have a quota system, rather it has a points system....like most schools.

You get points for community service, you get points if you're an athlete, you get points if your daddy went to the school, and you get points if you add to the school's diversity.

If Dumbya wants to do away with points and make it a straight academics test, then fine do it....ACROSS THE BOARD! No free passes like the one he got to get into Yale.

Guest,

You and I think alike in some ways. I too believe that success starts at home. One of the main things is that if education isn't valued in the home, then how in the hell is the kid going to decide to value it for himself? Some do, but parents should not underestimate how strong of an influence we have on our kids. If a father didn't do well in college, has a decent job and has a pretty happy life, then why in the world would his kid strive to do better in high school when his dad seems to have a good life? Fair question to ask.

When I was teaching (8th grade and 10th grade), I had a lot of students who came from Asian countries and had only been exposed to English for less than 3 months. Want to bet who did better in class - native English speakers or these students for whom English was a second language? It is all about attitudes at home. In many Asian countries teachers are highly thought of and respected. Not so here in the US.

One of the silliest things I hear on a regular basis when speaking of a very intelligent person, someone will invariably say, "But does he have common sense though"? This is the kind of thing someone says when they feel threatened by smart people. Sure, there are a handful of genius types in this world who might not exhibit "common sense" in areas outside of their expertise, but this is very rare, and much more rare than the village idiot not exhibiting "common sense".

Honestly, how many times do you hear "...and then the inventor of the Segueway went to the kitchen drawer and jammed a meat thermometer in his ear"?

I'm not sure what your point is on this one, Third Choice. I'm not sure whether the SAT was originally designed as a tool to keep down the number of Jews at Harvard. I do recall that there is some significant evidence that that's why Harvard began to promote "geographic diversity" as a thing to be valued in the admissions process back in the 20s and 30s.

But what does any of that have to do with whether the SAT is an accurate indicator of academic potential? I keep saying that it is imprecise at best, that it measures cultural exposure as much as it does aptitude. I also point out that performance can be artificially boosted through coaching. Because of these things, I argue that schools should not be overly wedded to them as indicia of potential or academic qualification. And is your response that these things aren't true? Or that they are but that all of this is a good thing? Or what?

TryonCreek wrote:

indicia

Ooh, I like that...

Jews by definition are by far the most racist people in the world:

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

I really can't believe you actually think you have a valid point. What reason is there to read other than in getting into a good school (so you can get a good job, live in the suburbs, and become another rich republican...)? This might come as some surprise to you, but some people in the world are actually want to simply learn more and are interested in the world around them and want to simply further their knowledge. Despite the capitalistic ideals of this country, not everyone is motivated by nothing more than money.

a lot of people have made some very valid points, and i'm not exactly sure where i stand on affirmative action. in the brief filed by the white house in grutter v. bollinger, the bush administration suggests that the university of michigan can "...focus on numerous race-neutral factors including a history of overcoming disadvantage, geographic origin, socioeconomic status, challenging living or family situations, reputation and location of high school, volunteer and work experiences, exceptional personal talents, leadership potential, communication skills, commitment and dedication to particular causes, extracurricular activities, extraordinary expertise in a particular area, and individual outlook as reflected by essays (pg.24)...They may also adopt admissions policies that seek to promote experiential, geographic, political or economic diversity in the student body, which are entirely appropriate race-neutral governmental objectives (pg. 17) "

indeed, most of these factors are already used in college admissions, yet bush makes a valid point. if the goal is to enroll a diverse student body, such that they " 'are particularly likely to have experiences and perspectives of special importance' and the enrollment of a 'critical mass' of such preferred minority students ensures their ability to make 'unique contributions to the character of the Law School' " (pg. 3), than why is a racial diverse student body more important than a geographically or politically diverse one? wouldn't both possibilities contribute to an effective learning environment?

" 'racial and ethnic diversity in legal education is important both to a law school's mission in training effectives lawyers, and to the perception that our legal system is able to administer equal justice' " (pg. 15)

i would imagine that this also is true, but again, why isn't it just as important that a lawyer learn to work with people of a diverse socioeconomic and special talent background as it is with race?

those quotes came from the amicus curiae filed by the department of justice, i would imagine that many other groups (NAACP, etc) would also file briefs, does anyone know where i might be able to find those?

hsrunner wrote:

...

those quotes came from the amicus curiae filed by the department of justice, i would imagine that many other groups (NAACP, etc) would also file briefs, does anyone know where i might be able to find those?

I checked at findlaw.com, but they didn't appear to have the briefs from this case yet. Here's a link in case they put them up soon:

They are available from both Westlaw and Lexis, but unfortunately those services are quite costly for anyone other than a law professor (which I happen to be). I personally haven't read them yet because I am still finishing my grades from last semester.

"I really can't believe you actually think you have a valid point. What reason is there to read other than in getting into a good school (so you can get a good job, live in the suburbs, and become another rich republican...)? This might come as some surprise to you, but some people in the world are actually want to simply learn more and are interested in the world around them and want to simply further their knowledge. Despite the capitalistic ideals of this country, not everyone is motivated by nothing more than money."

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I guess that you didn't grow up poor. Well I did. When you have heat in only one room, don't have hot water and you are living day to day, you are not thinking that you are going to grow up to be a rich republican. You are not thinking of the future because you don't have a future. Most of the people in my neighborhood dropped out of school at 16. The intensity that is required, even for a highly intelligent person, to develop the qualifications for admission to a top school cannot happen in this kind of environment. But you didn't get the point, reading was a metaphor for developing those qualifications.