Hebron, KY group outed in AP article!

[quote]BigDuh wrote:

What fantasy world do you live in?? Are you a college sophomore?

You don't punish a road race for giving money, you punish people for breaking the rules!!!!!!

/quote]

My point is that you punish road races for not ENFORCING the rules.

The problem is that rules exist and there are a lot of road races in the US where there rules aren't enforced. If they aren't incapable of enforcing the rules, they shouldn't be allowed to offer prize money. Just have a road race and leave the prize money to the races that have enough money and knowledge to enforce the rules.

Otherwise you end up with the mess that currently exists.

Please note I never said (under the table) appearance money, just prize money. And you are correct, 81 Cascade was the first. USATF nee TAC came out of AAU in 79-80

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-times-info/1981-cascade-run-off-the-race-that-changed-the-sport

Bejonozine wrote:

Please note I never said (under the table) appearance money, just prize money. And you are correct, 81 Cascade was the first. USATF nee TAC came out of AAU in 79-80

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-times-info/1981-cascade-run-off-the-race-that-changed-the-sport

The money (both appearance and prize money) was above the table for just about everyone. For the USA team, the AAU collected the money and paid for US athletes travel, hotel, food, and a very small per diem. It was the US athletes competing on their own, usually in Europe, who had to take the money under the table. It was unfair that foreign athletes could collect money above board and use that to live / train while US athletes had to follow strict US amateur rules. The AAU profited by the athlete performances. Congress changed that.

Bejonozine wrote:

Please note I never said (under the table) appearance money, just prize money.

Back to this forum discussion. My point was that if a Road Race will not enforce the rules, meaning to check and test any runners who win prize money, then call it an unsanctioned race. Then if it becomes obvious that a banned runner is allowed to run in that race then the race is held accountable and any runners competing in an unsanctioned race also lose their eligibility to run for money for, say, 2 years.

The article said that Lilian Mariita tested positive twice. Once at a road race in Mexico. If a Mexico road race can test, why can't USA road races?

finally wrote:

The culture of doping has a particularly strong grip on second- and third-tier Kenyan runners, who mostly race abroad, aren't tested regularly and won't compete in Rio. As well as Mikhaylova's camp, the IAAF said it is also investigating other groups of runners in the U.S. and Mexico.

I think you are pointing your finger at the wrong person. Mikhaylova isn't the problem nor the solution. Point your finger at the second- and third-tier road races who offer prize money to attract the second- and third-tier Kenya runners who aren't tested before receiving their prize money.

Also it annoys me when Joe Local-Road-Runner claims he was cheated out of prize money from foreign runners who allegedly dope. How do we know that Joe is clean if he isn't being tested either.

First of all you mentioned Basweti, Cherutich, Nourdine /Omar Jimila, Dghoughi, Marita, and Gemechu and Julius Koskei who either tested positive or rumored to be. Then you mentioned Mourad Marofit has been doping since before the passport. But no proof he is doping.

FYI:

Mourad Marofit has been on a level as a WORLD CLASS athlete, the others are NOT WORLD CLASS. Mourad has been running for years, many of the others are new in the sport, only running the past few years. Marofit has trained with Morocco's best and has also been a pacemaker on the track when he was in Europe for Kenenisa Bekele. Mourad has had thousand of blood and urine tests performed. NEVER a positive result. Regarding the biological passport, the IAAF, WADA and USADA has had his blood results on file for many years. If Mourad had any biological passport findings he would have been banned long ago. When Mourad worked with Larissa for about 2 years there were 2 Kenyans who fled to Minnesota and told one coach there what was going on in Hebron. The 2 Kenyans mentioned that many were doping but the ONLY one who ALWAYS rejected anything from Larissa or her coach husband known for his massage work was "THE MOROCCAN GUY(MOURAD). I repeat this was said by 2 Kenyans who were honest.

Mourad is an experienced WORLD CLASS athlete who has run 13:02 for 5000m, a time many of those athletes haven't come close to. And never will. Mourad can run with anyone, the man is CLEAN! He is one of the best US Road Racers in the states. Many athletes fear him when they see him at the starting line, they know he is strong and has the ability to beat them or at least always push the pace. So please do NOT compare Mourad to any of these small time athletes, he is on another level and is CLEAN. He is the most experienced of the group and has been tested thousands of times. He has run big events where testing is almost ALWAYS done. He does not run only the small races where testing is absent. Keep Mourad's name free from your dirty mouth unless there is proof, if not STFU!

If he is so clean then why does he train and race with that group? Surely he could train with runners who are on his level, and compete with teammates who won't tarnish his reputation.

me thinks the lad(y) doth protest too much, don't you? I can't honestly say one way or the other whether Marofit is clean or dirty, but one thing that works against athletes is when anonymous ppl come and use lies to "support" them.

look buddy, maybe your friend Mourad is indeed clean, but throwing out a wildly false claim about "thousand...tests performed" is pure and utter bullsh** and we all know it. even if he was tested once a week (not even galen rupp or mo farah are tested that much), it would take almost 20yrs for him to hit that number. stop making Marofit look worse by making up numbers and lying about his testing history. Time will tell if he really is clean or dirty, as usada will probably be targeting him at this point.

Thank you, Ghost in Ignorance. "He is a faithful muslim boy, reverant and brave and humble and good-looking!"

COACH007 wrote:

First of all you mentioned Basweti, Cherutich, Nourdine /Omar Jimila, Dghoughi, Marita, and Gemechu and Julius Koskei who either tested positive or rumored to be. Then you mentioned Mourad Marofit has been doping since before the passport. But no proof he is doping.

FYI:

Mourad Marofit

Clerk wrote:

USADA target tests as best they can.

Let's clarify this a bit. The race has to pay for tests. The athlete has to fail an IQ test to fail urine tests. AND THEN, apparently, bribery is a way to alter the outcome of a positive test.

So, it's pretty hard to test positive unless you are completely oblivious. Which, seems to happen!

It's great the AP did the story. This small-time corruption is just the start.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Clerk wrote:

USADA target tests as best they can.

Let's clarify this a bit. The race has to pay for tests. The athlete has to fail an IQ test to fail urine tests. AND THEN, apparently, bribery is a way to alter the outcome of a positive test.

So, it's pretty hard to test positive unless you are completely oblivious. Which, seems to happen!

It's great the AP did the story. This small-time corruption is just the start.

I do need to clarify. My point was that USADA showed that they can be extremely effective, and have showed they can be highly adept at targeting suspicious individuals. They went all the way to Morocco to catch Mo Trafeh. My reply showed an example where they sought out and nabbed a target based on message board posts alone (sort of). They caught that Andrew Carnes guy buying EPO and he was just a 67' half marathoner.

So, given that they can "get their man", the fact that LMelite is doing its thing, so brazenly, is troubling. I doubt that this group has any sway, or opportunities to bribe their way out. Their record certainly shows they aren't protected. But USADA hasn't been able to make a decisive blow either.

If the rules aren't enforced then there are no rules.

Don't make this any more complicated than it is. Until Road Races who pay out money test, we get what we see.

In basketball if the referees never called traveling then what would happen. Of if offsides was never called in football. Then if someone swooped in to catch athletes breaking the rule you'd find plenty. It wouldn't be a conspiracy, rather a lack of enforcing the rules.

So don't blame the athletes, coaches, agents, and others. Blame the Road Races who don't test. Once good testing is in place there will be objective information to detect and punish.

Why should I care if these people cheat? Two of the largest institutional cheats in the NCAA final four and no one seems to care.

These dirt bags just bagged few k at the half marathon in columbus, ms yesterday. Bullshit.

Wada and the usada need to plug the plug on this group and it needs to be NOW.

Dirt Baggs wrote:

These dirt bags just bagged few k at the half marathon in columbus, ms yesterday. Bullshit.

Who are the cheats? Name the names and explain when they tested positive. Also did Columbus test them right after the race?

No, columbus did not test them. Point is they should have...

Cant wait till larisa gets sent back to doperville russia. Hint no need to bring that sh_t here.

Again you're a moron and know nothing. Mourad left Larissa years ago and works with a manager from NYC. Dude you suck. Do your homework. You know squat.

She should be fined, banned for life, stripped of American citizenship and deported to Russia.

Anyone agree with me?