kawasuchi wrote:
A Portuguese coach of multiple Olympians knows for a fact that Tergat was taking EPO given by a Russian doctor. See thread:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4774760&page=2
I am not discounting it as a possibility. But that is 3rd degree hearsay, not evidence.
RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:
"but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27)."
Tergat is the one that haunts me. I love the guy and have looked up to him for so long. He seems so humble, polite, and hardworking.
But he won the World Cross champs multiple times during the years of EPO. How can you dominate a dirty era and be clean?
The more time goes by, the more the 90's and early 00's just look filthy. The fact I am having to questing him by association with a dirty era makes me sick.
Agree completely.
RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:
kawasuchi wrote:A Portuguese coach of multiple Olympians knows for a fact that Tergat was taking EPO given by a Russian doctor. See thread:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4774760&page=2I am not discounting it as a possibility. But that is 3rd degree hearsay, not evidence.
There is not spread of evidence that Jos or anyone on his management team have anything to do with doping.Jos is very involved with his athletes and respected by all as he once was world class himself. He does an excellent job managing his elites and if anything would steer them away from the thought of doping. He is fully aware of the implications.
All Hearsay wrote:
There is not spread of evidence that Jos or anyone on his management team have anything to do with doping.Jos is very involved with his athletes and respected by all as he once was world class himself. He does an excellent job managing his elites and if anything would steer them away from the thought of doping. He is fully aware of the implications.
What crap. Jos was considered to be a cheat when he was an athlete. And his 'success' that coincided with the EPO era and the ability to always avoid out of season testing is more than chance. The hell with him and his frauds.
that is why he ensures there is no paper trail.
Part of the reason BALCO got busted was because the investigator guy went through trash and found order forms for 'roids, needles, etc.
Lack of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence....but legally lack of evidence is a problem. WADA suspected the Russians for a long time, but the whistle-blowers provided the evidence (video and other) to pursue a case. I'm sure if they had evidence in the other sports like XC skiing WADA would fully pursue and reveal the full scale of the Russian doping problem. That's why it's so unfortunate that the RUSADA guy was murdered as he was going to reveal so much more.
Inaccessibility of training sites in Kenya and Ethiopia + others is definitely a huge problem in terms of anti-doping. No testing and advanced notice testing makes it a joke.
Mo Money Mo Problems!
gov gen wrote:
that is why he ensures there is no paper trail.
Part of the reason BALCO got busted was because the investigator guy went through trash and found order forms for 'roids, needles, etc.
Lack of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence....but legally lack of evidence is a problem. WADA suspected the Russians for a long time, but the whistle-blowers provided the evidence (video and other) to pursue a case. I'm sure if they had evidence in the other sports like XC skiing WADA would fully pursue and reveal the full scale of the Russian doping problem. That's why it's so unfortunate that the RUSADA guy was murdered as he was going to reveal so much more.
Inaccessibility of training sites in Kenya and Ethiopia + others is definitely a huge problem in terms of anti-doping. No testing and advanced notice testing makes it a joke.
Mo Money Mo Problems!
"unfortunate"? you almost make it sound like it was an accident. :)
Tired of the cheaters wrote:
All Hearsay wrote:There is not spread of evidence that Jos or anyone on his management team have anything to do with doping.Jos is very involved with his athletes and respected by all as he once was world class himself. He does an excellent job managing his elites and if anything would steer them away from the thought of doping. He is fully aware of the implications.
What crap. Jos was considered to be a cheat when he was an athlete. And his 'success' that coincided with the EPO era and the ability to always avoid out of season testing is more than chance. The hell with him and his frauds.
Here we go again, Jos was never busted for anything, zero, nada! Speculation and rumor is just that. If you so desperately have to believe this take your time and money and prove it out.
All Hearsay wrote:
Tired of the cheaters wrote:What crap. Jos was considered to be a cheat when he was an athlete. And his 'success' that coincided with the EPO era and the ability to always avoid out of season testing is more than chance. The hell with him and his frauds.
Here we go again, Jos was never busted for anything, zero, nada! Speculation and rumor is just that. If you so desperately have to believe this take your time and money and prove it out.
Hi Jos!
Ho Hum wrote:
All Hearsay wrote:Here we go again, Jos was never busted for anything, zero, nada! Speculation and rumor is just that. If you so desperately have to believe this take your time and money and prove it out.
Hi Jos!
Guess who else was never "busted" Lasse Viren, Flo-Jo, Carl Lewis, Lance Armstrong (until he confessed), and we're talking about the '70's and '80's. Come on!
My doctor is able to prescribe morphine as well as other fun pharmaceuticals.Does that mean everyone he treats is a junkie?You would be surprised what your own physician could prescribe you should you need it. Hell, in Europe assisted suicide is legal....Use your head.
house of cards? wrote:
You've got to read this. If Hermens is dirty, then the sport could have a huge problem.
https://goo.gl/MVg8WACan a Swedish speaker help us get a totally acurate translation? Here is what my translation says:
"(Aregawi's) Dutch management company Global Sports Communications showed a little more humanity, but behaved strangely at the same time. Very quickly they began to spread the story of a doctor from the Ukraine has been seen in Addis Ababa. They had no name and they had no proof - but they wanted the focus would be on that doctor, that he could be the culprit.
"Why? Perhaps because they have the doctor Pieter Vergouwen in his stable.
He treated recently Abeba Aregawi and has a least dubious background. Previously, he worked with several active as caught for doping and Vergouwen himself has talked openly about that we should legalize the EPO."
Especially if the doctor was Ukrainian or Russian. Pretty sure the medical protocols in that part of the world are quite different than North America. If you have the $ than you can get what you want/need.
WOW!This really does not look good for Jos Hermens.This is an article from Nov. 22, 2006. Jos Hermens is recommending Dr. Miguel Angel Peraita, one of the doctors besides Dr. Fuentes involved in the 2006 Operation Puerto. We are still waiting to see if the identities on the over 200 bags of blood found in the freezer of Dr. Fuentes will ever be released, after 10 years! I wonder if there are any Ethiopian identities on some of those bags.In this article, Jos Hermens says that he recommended Peraita to the three German athletes because he believed some of the Spanish doctor's methods, which included homeopathy, were revolutionary. "I was maybe a little dumb," Hermens said. "I should have asked more questions about what Peraita exactly does."Come on. Really?So Hermens was just "maybe a little dumb". Out of all the doctors he could pick to send his German athletes to, he just happens to pick a doctor in Spain who is involved in the huge Operation Puerto doping scandal involving blood transfusions, EPO, and thousands of doses of anabolic steroids. What are the odds of Jos Hermens having such bad luck in choosing a doctor?......... Great job finding this 2006 article by just sayin.......well done!
just sayin wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics-claims-over-a-doping-network-are-crazy-says-hermens-425356.htmlJudge for yourself
A Spanish doping doctor with connections to Fuentes performing homeopathy not remotely believable!
Gebresellasie and Bekele need to be exposed before Athletics can move on from these scandals - cycling has taught us that lesson
The Law of Jude wrote:
My doctor is able to prescribe morphine as well as other fun pharmaceuticals.
Does that mean everyone he treats is a junkie?
You would be surprised what your own physician could prescribe you should you need it. Hell, in Europe assisted suicide is legal....
Use your head.
house of cards? wrote:You've got to read this. If Hermens is dirty, then the sport could have a huge problem.
https://goo.gl/MVg8WACan a Swedish speaker help us get a totally acurate translation? Here is what my translation says:
"(Aregawi's) Dutch management company Global Sports Communications showed a little more humanity, but behaved strangely at the same time. Very quickly they began to spread the story of a doctor from the Ukraine has been seen in Addis Ababa. They had no name and they had no proof - but they wanted the focus would be on that doctor, that he could be the culprit.
"Why? Perhaps because they have the doctor Pieter Vergouwen in his stable.
He treated recently Abeba Aregawi and has a least dubious background. Previously, he worked with several active as caught for doping and Vergouwen himself has talked openly about that we should legalize the EPO."
The only country in Europe White assisted suicide is legal is switzerland
Maybe you have some misunderstandings about "the dirty era".
RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:
"but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27)."
Tergat is the one that haunts me. I love the guy and have looked up to him for so long. He seems so humble, polite, and hardworking.
But he won the World Cross champs multiple times during the years of EPO. How can you dominate a dirty era and be clean?
The more time goes by, the more the 90's and early 00's just look filthy. The fact I am having to questing him by association with a dirty era makes me sick.
Aregawi coached by 1.43guy, now coach/pro pacemaker Bram Som who is with GSC, also coach of Kipyegon.
Peter Vergouwen independent, not on a bonus contract with GSC, but has a sports med clinic in the hospital, so short lines to specialists if needed, close to Nijmegen, where GSC is based. Nothing crazy.
I agree that these cheats all need to be exposed so athletics can move on and start fresh like cycling. Bekele and Geb were on the juice. Most of the top athletes today are on the juice and they have no problem vehemently denying using drugs. That is sad. There will be many frauds in track in Rio who will get away with it and their fraudulent gold medals. Having a con artist like Seb Coe calling for the shots doesn't help much.
Paul Tergat threw down a ~2:30 kilometer split in the middle of 12k xc race. Uhhhh, EPO much?
Fentrekker wrote:
RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:"but I have to say that I would have a tough time suspecting Paul Tergat from that same era (12:49/26:27)."
Tergat is the one that haunts me. I love the guy and have looked up to him for so long. He seems so humble, polite, and hardworking.
But he won the World Cross champs multiple times during the years of EPO. How can you dominate a dirty era and be clean?
The more time goes by, the more the 90's and early 00's just look filthy. The fact I am having to questing him by association with a dirty era makes me sick.
Agree completely.
One small line saying the doctor has talked about legalizing epo (with no proof), and now no one believes geb and bekele were clean? Letsrun really might be bad for the sport
We are witnessing The Great Unravelling.
... ... .. wrote:
One small line saying the doctor has talked about legalizing epo (with no proof), and now no one believes geb and bekele were clean? Letsrun really might be bad for the sport
Gebresellasie:
Competed from the start of the EPO era until the introduction of ABP
Dominated a host of dopers when there was no EPO test for 7 years - impossible to do clean.
Zero out of competition testing all career
Close ties to his very dodgy agent with links to Spanish doping doctors.
Hopefully the whole sham unravels in 2016