7:59, 13:48, 28:39, 2:16 on 50-60 mpw

Ghost and other Brits:

I am thoroughly enjoying reading about runners from GB's past who tore up the roads, tracks and trails while still working. Some great stories out there!

By the way, one of my graduate instructors was a sportsman for Loughborough University. He talks about the training of Seb Coe, and I talk about the coaching of George Gandy.

Please keep sharing stories with us. Thank you! Tinman

wannabekila wrote:

well put Cilla!

Close to 14mins is exceptional time for a woman especially one with your dentures.

Friend, you remind me of that Catman persona of a couple years ago; he spoke w/out thinking regularly. You've offered nothing of substance to the discussion. Please, give it a rest. Thanks in advance.

you just dont get it do you?

scotth, if you were a brit, then you would shut the fcuk up. Now please, give it a rest. Thanks.

Modern Day UK, anybody who knows Andy B, will tell you that his miles were so low because of his regular bouts of serious illness. The amount of time he has taken off in the past 4 yrs, it is amazing that he has achieved anywhere near the results that he has done. For this, he should be very very proud. However, i believe that he is destined for greater things.

Yes, quality western athletes can run decent times off of very low mileage, but they will not run 'great times' ie sub 7:45/13:25/28:00 without running a higher ave weekly mileage. FACT. When Badders gets into slightly higher miles, without illness, then he will fly.

TH&Houndsboy

Friend, the vein of wannabekila's posts are tangential at best to the topic. I suggest you give his posts a look and get back to me. You needn't use slurs w/me. Kind of shallow behavior.

british humour.... wrote:

you just dont get it do you?

scotth, if you were a brit, then you would shut the fcuk up. Now please, give it a rest. Thanks.

I agree, Wannabekelia rarely contributes anything interesting to any discussion, but he was only having a giggle at somebodies screen name.

You have no sense of humour old bean, however your sense of self importance appears to be greatly inflated in comparision. Please give that shit a rest. TIA.

ghost,

If you do get the urge to go, please do. Thank you for one of the most interesting threads I've seen for a while. A good friend of mine was one of the better road runners in Britain for a while during this era, or slight;y before. He moved to the US and I always read his AWs after he was done, so some of these names are familiar to me.

[ Take 100 sedentary people, train them in groups of 10 for a marathon 3 months away with each group running different mileage. The correlation of performance and mileage will be very high.[/quote]

The correlation between performance and INTENSITY will be higher.

u obviously dont know him.... wrote:

"Yes, quality western athletes can run decent times off of very low mileage, but they will not run 'great times' ie sub 7:45/13:25/28:00 without running a higher ave weekly mileage. FACT. When Badders gets into slightly higher miles, without illness, then he will fly. "

TH&Houndsboy

Reply: You made a generalized statement, which is fine, but there are examples of runners who have run low mileage and yet broke the times you claim can't be broken without high mileage. Take for example these Western athletes (all from the USA):

Doug Padilla (60-70 miles, at most, in the off-season and 50 miles per week during the racing season). Times: 7:35.84 for 3k, 8:15.02 for 2 miles, 13:15.44 for 5k. Record of performance: 1985 World Cup champ. 6 times world's best indoor distance runner. Mobil Outdoor Grand Prix Champ, 1985; multiple USA Champion indoors and outdoors.

Jim Spivey (60-70 miles per week in base training, about 45-50 while racing); times 1:46.5 for 800m, 3:31.01 for 1500m, 3:49.8 for the mile, 7:37.04 for 3k, and 13:15.86 for 5k. Bronze medalist at the World Championships in th 1500m. Multiple USA national champion. 13 time Big-Ten collegiate champion.

Additionally, Henry Marsh ran 8:09.17 for the steeplechase using his standard 50 miles per week regimen. Repeated national champ in the steeplechase.

- It can be done. It all comes back to doing what works bests for you. Maybe Padilla, Spivey, and Marsh would reached faster race speeds but maybe they would not have, either. It is our false assumption to say that everyone needs to train like the fastest runner in the world at the time. It is reasonable to say the most of the best distance runners in the world apparently run fairly high mileage, at least during portions of each year. (Fairly high mileage is relative. 5k runners might think that farily high is 100-120 miles per week. Marathoners may think that 120-140 miles per week is fairly high mileage. Tinman

What is interesting with these discussions is how unbelievably stupid most runners are when it comes to mileage. How many times does it have to be beat in to their heads that you also have to factor in frequency and intensity?

Ghost,

Many thanks for these great posts. One common factor would appear to be routine and consistency. Also, the motivation that training and mixing within a group with similar values and aspirations can achieve. My guess is that these guys were in the main frequent racers.

Whilst there is a case for utter dedication to running and the pursuit of world class competitiveness for a select few. The fact is that for most of us it is a case of maximising the compromise of work, family and running (choose your own order).

I'm sure you would remember another name from that era, Bernie Plain. Bernie's still to be seen most Saturday's out doing the intervals here in Cardiff. Bernie has been a similar inspiration to many down here as the Fords, Tucks and Treadwells were across the border.

YOu have reminded me of another great welsh runner from the 70s. Davy Jones (not related to Steve). I was back in Cardiff for a weekend from the Army and Bernie(then one of the best in europe) saw me leave the clubhouse at Cathays park. The next time he saw me was about 5 miles away on Llanishen road and about 100m in front. He gave chase and could not catch me. In fact he was chasing Davy Jones who had developed from nowhere in a short time, lived "oop North" and had come home to see mum. Bernie did not know him. When Bernie got back to clubhouse I was already changed. He was mortified because I had improved so much in 6 months. When I told him I had not even run the same direction, he was convinved I was lying!!He was even less impressed when he found out that there was another Welsh runner that he had never heard of who could beat him.

Facts of Life wrote:

[ Take 100 sedentary people, train them in groups of 10 for a marathon 3 months away with each group running different mileage. The correlation of performance and mileage will be very high.

The correlation between performance and INTENSITY will be higher.[/quote]

Dont know about that! For previously sedentary people i would think intensity is almost worthless.

For anyone interested in these type of anecdotes concerning Brit athletes i strongly recommend reading Alistair Atkins book "Athletics Enigmas".

I could not live with myself if I only ran 50 mile weeks during my prime years. I just had to know...

On the way to "too much training" there is correct training.

I sleep at night.

So it's your belief that, in a country where 50% of the population live below the poverty level and in a family which survived by subsistence farming, Haile went to school 5 days a week for 30 weeks per year? Were you aware that as recently as 2000-2001 50,000 ethiopians died as a result of starvation? Here is a short history of the place Geb grew up:

So there you have it, war, drought, more war, more drought, not exactly realistic to suppose that Geb was anything like a full time student as we know it in the West, is it?

If you are basing your argument on what Geb did as a child, would it not be better to actually KNOW what he did? I can assure you that what he didn't do is run to school 5 days a week for 30 weeks a year.

Ghost, many thanks for your posts, reading about those runners, and the places they trained is like stepping back to childhood for me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the inference to be drawn from these examples is that maximizing your performance at a certain level of training volume is imperative before moving on to greater volumes of training? If you want an example of that you need look no further than Paula Radcliffe.

Dr.Koster said in an interview that Haile ran "only" 5-6KM to school, still good training for a kid but only half the mileage as usually reported.

If that is the army Glen I think it might be, you would certainly be an advocate of less is more in terms of miles.

That's great, bud. I am glad you expect to establish an ounce of credibility by plagiarizing some huge body of information.

Just to make sure you CAN in fact read, the post said "...NOT INCLUDING daily 3 hour treks for water and running down farm animals, etc."

In fact, school cycles in these countries are often based on farming seasons, so Geb likely got MORE running during those times even then when he was going to school. In school, he would be sitting down for long periods of time. At home, he would be spending additional hours running around and doing heavy lifting.

So, essentially, YOU PROVED MY POINT FURTHER. He was doing AT LEAST 20K per day and most likely MORE.

Keep working on coming up with an original idea. Surely it will hit you one day.

the mention of 14 minutes is extremely conservative for the athlete mentioned. i presume it is andy baddelley who is one of the most exciting talents around in GB at the moment. Along wit McCormick, farah they have the potential to break right through into world class over 5km and for each of the lads mentioned i think they are all capapble of at least 13.10 and probably a good deal quicker.