Magness on Genzebe: "The arrogance of it all is astounding"

sorry to break it to you boys but....she's on something. what your witnessing is not real....Magness wouldn't tweet that out if he didn't know something...he might say it to himself but to put it out there on social media in today's world is the equivalent of releasing a press statement.

For a coach to put any ahtlete on blast like that without any proof at all is ridiculous. It'd be like the worst coach in the NFL saying that Beckham Jr. must be doping to be able to make catches like that.

Star wrote:

Any guy that had 3:50/14:15 ability would be able to hit all of the times she's run recently with no problem.

And a 3:50/14:15 combo is not at all rare for college men.

8:22 for 3000 isn't great for someone running 14 low at 5K.

And the 4:13 mile also isn't impressive for that type of runner.

Her mile equivalent is about 4:08.

yea but that's for a guy, the correlations are different for women, different deterioration rates at over distances due to different physiology. If she were running closer to what 3:50 guys 'should' run in the 3k/5k, then the doping would be basically indisputable.

My take on Magness is that the guy is so science heavy in his coaching that he looses sight of inspiring athletes to do their best. Just my take though. I've never met the guy, but it's the impression I get. Same vibe from Brad Hudson.

Star wrote:

Sure, the outdoor 1500 record raises eyebrows.

But if you accept that, then the recent indoor times do not.

Women should be at 3:50 flat by now.

In 1980 if you told me the 1500m record would be 3:50 flat in 2015 I wouldn't think of it as fast.

It took 35 years to drop less than 2 1/2 seconds.

In 35 years the men's record went from 3:52 to 3:36.

And over the same period the women went from 3:52 to 3:50 (1980 - 2015) the men went from 3:32 to 3:26.

The women should at least be at 3:46 by now.

Why the terrible progression?

this chick is complete bulshit.

Star wrote:

Sure, the outdoor 1500 record raises eyebrows.

But if you accept that, then the recent indoor times do not.

Women should be at 3:50 flat by now.

In 1980 if you told me the 1500m record would be 3:50 flat in 2015 I wouldn't think of it as fast.

It took 35 years to drop less than 2 1/2 seconds.

In 35 years the men's record went from 3:52 to 3:36.

And over the same period the women went from 3:52 to 3:50 (1980 - 2015) the men went from 3:32 to 3:26.

The women should at least be at 3:46 by now.

Why the terrible progression?

Let's look prior to 1980 and go back another 20 years.

From 1960 - 1980, the mens' world record fell from 3:35 - 3:31.

From 1960 - 1980, the womens' world record fell from 4:17 - 3:52.

Within that fall, Ludmila Bragila lowered the record from 4:09 - 4:01 in ONE YEAR (1971 - 72) and Tatyana Kazankina lowered the record by 9 seconds in a span of 8 years.

The reason should be obvious. Extraordinarily drugged up Soviet women put the record in free-fall, and an equally drugged up Chinese woman broke it afterwards. Much more difficult to break those records now that no one can drug up to the same extent/manner.

For the credibility of the sport they really need to bust her. I feel sorry for all the clean women competing against her.

Huh? Most fit middle/long distance runners would feel 100% fresh 2 days after racing a mile that wasn't even a PR.

seeing MIGHT be believing wrote:

yea but that's for a guy, the correlations are different for women, different deterioration rates at over distances due to different physiology. If she were running closer to what 3:50 guys 'should' run in the 3k/5k, then the doping would be basically indisputable.

Nope. The deterioration rates for women can be the same as in men. There is nothing about it due to different physiology.

Haven't read the whole thread so maybe this has been said: Running really fast for 4:00 and then doing so for about 8:00 a few days later isn't that big of a deal. Yes, she's running faster than other women, but how many of you can't handle running all-out for 8:00 two days after you ran all-out for 4:00. Big deal.

She's getting paid to run fast. Might as well make some money. It's more arrogant not to because you think it's going to last forever. I'd say it's astounding elites don't race more often when they are in their prime.

beside epo/epo variant ,

she aint gettin speed from that.

igf-1 lr3 what an amazin peptide .

but iaaf says no exist

My take:

The women's performances are affected more heavily by the lack of participation from African nations than doping.

1) Chinese records are highly likely to be doped due to the time windows, frequency of great performances at the same meets, and lack of consistency following a breakdown of the National federation. They don't seem to have the genetics to perform near those levels at the moment.

2) African nations are behind in terms of women's equality (something that doesn't go in the records book), and have not had as much participation as the males in professional athletics. This is due to cultural and societal norms more than anything. With the top professional talent who did compete in the 2000s, they went to 5k/10k, so we never saw the 1500m records chased. Dibaba/Defar could have been 3:53/54 ladies too..

3) Genzebe Dibaba is one of the most genetically gifted athletes, is sisters with another WR performer, and has near perfect mechanics. Also, she is in a near perfect training atmosphere, in 8000' feet training fully professional with 3:40-3:42 men with a coach who is very accomplished and knowledgeable.

With that being said, a perfect genetics/mechanics athlete with a great training set up may just run as fast as a doped Chinese athlete, mainly because the limits of female athleticism is not yet met. Why would it be if participation and professionalism is not yet fully established among the most genetically gifted athletes (Ethiopians and Kenyans)?

Lastly, after watching the World Champs last year, it seemed that Dibaba, Hassan, and Kipyegon all seemed at a different level than the rest. I wouldn't think all are doped, I just think genetics plays a pretty big role in racing.

As for this last performance, it's pretty normal for a 3:50 athlete. She ran 4:13/8:22... most 3:50 athletes would consider that a typical day at a conference indoor meet..

I don't know if she's doping or not, just like the rest of you, but the information is misleading to jump to conclusion. "If she runs faster than the dopers, she must be doped!!" That is only true if they were the same talents.. but why aren't the Chinese anywhere close anymore? And why is Hassan.. a Ethopian-born athlete the only person chasing Dibaba in the WR? Are they both taking the same drug that the other athletes don't take?

One last final point, there was two high school girls who ran 4:03/4:04... why is a 4:13 considered unreal anyways?

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

Isn't Magness a thyroid cheat just like Rupp, Fleshmann, Goucher, Kennedy, Hall, and some others? He was a part of NOP(e) for a significant period and wasn't even able to get anyone sanctioned for cheating. I'd say he is no cleaner than the athletes he is calling out.

Thank You for sorting through all the deafening noise to zero in on the astounding fact that we are silent to the logs in our own eyes

this peptide been around decade now and not even a mention by wada,iaaf.

for epo had nearly crap test by time nd mention

His college girls all run really funny, too funny to break 2.20 in the 800 without some amazing "aid"

And going off his own logic I think Sara hall is doping (hey why else would she hide away from the OT?)

Also Goucher is doping for sure, how can a woman that old run that fast?

Clerk wrote:

parkway wrote:

I think the difference between thinking that an athlete who is way ahead of the field should be under heavy scrutiny and baldly stating that they're an obvious doper is pretty clear and pretty important.

We're in Bolt territory again; it's entirely plausible that they're clean, it's entirely plausible that they're not.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that we just don't know.

How is it plausible that they're clean?

Someone's got to be the best. In the case of Bolt, why not an unusually tall and lean man from the best sprint nation who was world junior champion at 15? For Genzebe, why not a member of a freakishly successful family of distance runners with unusually powerful and fluent form?

We can repeat this whole exchange if/when Kiprop runs 3:25. If anyone's made to break that record it's surely the alien, but then that doesn't mean he's conclusively clean either.

When you are supported by swift girl it's certainly time to reconsider your statements.

amerikano b.s

her sisters were dopers as is hassan (igf-1) but cant push epo r maybe risk epo n europe

iaaf enables this

bolt had igf-1 too,

where dibaba gets speed. equality b.s ,

if epo workd aswell in women then wud be same as african men