Is it desirable to train myself to run with my feet flexed (ankles at acute angles)?

That's childish. I give you real physiology to couter the pseudoscience and that is all you can say?

I understand that most people really don't care about this stuff, but they love to argue anyway. I want to do things the right way. If that makes me unpopular, that's probably a good thing. Why would I want to be part of the team that disrespects intelligent debate?

Jon Orange wrote:

Efficiency is neural.

.

So is CTE/Alzheimer's. Look it up. Might ring a bell.

Or not.

Jon Orange wrote:

If it was an advantage to have more RBCs as you train more, your body would produce more.

Why do you state this as fact? As I mentioned earlier, it certainly isn't the case the women's bodies naturally produce levels of testosterone optimal for running performance. Why would it be so with red blood cells?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your reasoning begin with the assumption that homostasis in healthy humans implies that all hormonal levels are optimal for running. May I ask why you assume this is true? It seems to me that the notion humans are optimized is questionable and if we were that optimization would likely be aimed at health and fertility rather than distance running.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I'm honestly curious where you are coming from.

EPO and blood doping give you more RBCs so you are wrong.

We know that EPO and blood doping increase red blood cells, that's not the point. Try to keep up.

Jon Orange, to repeat my post above, I'm not trying to pick a fight here but I do have some substantive questions about your views. I would appreciate a response.

Jon Orange wrote:

If it was an advantage to have more RBCs as you train more, your body would produce more.

Why do you state this as fact? As I mentioned earlier, it certainly isn't the case the women's bodies naturally produce levels of testosterone optimal for running performance? Why would it be so with red blood cells?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your reasoning begin with the assumption that homostasis in healthy humans implies that all hormonal levels are optimal for running. May I ask why you assume this is true? It seems to me that the notion that humans are optimized is questionable and that if humans are optimized, then that optimization would likely be aimed more at health and fertility rather than distance running.

test2 wrote:

Jon Orange wrote:

If it was an advantage to have more RBCs as you train more, your body would produce more.

Why do you state this as fact?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I'm honestly curious where you are coming from.

Because he's a troll. Nobody is that stupid. Well, ok, it is possible he really is just that stupid, but, I'm going with troll. He is still an idiot, but he's an idiot troll. His whole schtick is several logical fallacies with a few stock responses. He's even added in a few new ones like "try to keep up" to increase his annoyance factor and generate more responses. It's actually amazing how many people engage with him. What he says doesn't even make any sense. He just uses a string of nonsense sentences. Maybe he's trying to out-do "leg speed velocity", I don't know, but it's failing. He just comes across as the worlds biggest idiot and an as$hole. Oh well, it seems to make him happy and people keep responding to the fool so he'll keep doing it. But, like with all trolls, ignoring him is the best response to his idiocy.

Jon Orange wrote:

Why would I want to be part of the team that disrespects intelligent debate?

I don't know but here you are.

Jon Orange wrote:

We know that EPO and blood doping increase red blood cells, that's not the point. Try to keep up.

You don't have a point.

You said that having more RBCs doesn't improve performance.

You are wrong.

sjzjananjz wrote:

please don't coach wrote:

You love to talk about yourself and you mentioned that you are a clyde. That isn't hard to remember.

I also know you are a jesus freak and would kill your son if a voice told you to.

Now who is creepy?

Yes thejeff loves to talk about himself and thinks he is a fantastic poster.

Not very humble for a Christian.

He also constantly talks about ridiculous tricks to run faster instead of running more and doing instead of talking.

Also, he once admitted that he was trying to gain weight to medal in the clydesdale group. Pathetic.

I forgive you.

thejeff wrote:

sjzjananjz wrote:

Yes thejeff loves to talk about himself and thinks he is a fantastic poster.

Not very humble for a Christian.

He also constantly talks about ridiculous tricks to run faster instead of running more and doing instead of talking.

Also, he once admitted that he was trying to gain weight to medal in the clydesdale group. Pathetic.

I forgive you.

Isn't that up to the big Daddy?

thejeff wrote:

sjzjananjz wrote:

Yes thejeff loves to talk about himself and thinks he is a fantastic poster.

Not very humble for a Christian.

He also constantly talks about ridiculous tricks to run faster instead of running more and doing instead of talking.

Also, he once admitted that he was trying to gain weight to medal in the clydesdale group. Pathetic.

I forgive you.

Oh wow praise the Lord!!! I am so happy WOW!

Back to your question.

Assuming you will be wearing lead blocks in your shorts to make clydesdale then you need to flex the muscles connecting your upper quads to your glutes very hard (like kegels)

Then you need to keep your knee up for an extended period of time before making contact (like skipping)

Finally make sure your arms are more extended and oscillate up and down smoothly (like a bird flapping it's wings).

Make sure your don't increase your mpw too much. Since you're at 12 now don't go higher than 14 for now.

Also, wear 5 lockets and compression socks over your head, in case that was the idea for your next post.

Hallelujah!!!

You certainly are bad wrote:

Your post is so muddled that it's not even wrong. It's just confused.

What you are trying to say is I'm right, but you wish I weren't, but can't think of a reason why not, so you put on airs instead.

test2 wrote:

Jon Orange wrote:

If it was an advantage to have more RBCs as you train more, your body would produce more.

Why do you state this as fact? As I mentioned earlier, it certainly isn't the case the women's bodies naturally produce levels of testosterone optimal for running performance? Why would it be so with red blood cells?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your reasoning begin with the assumption that homostasis in healthy humans implies that all hormonal levels are optimal for running. May I ask why you assume this is true? It seems to me that the notion that humans are optimized is questionable and that if humans are optimized, then that optimization would likely be aimed more at health and fertility rather than distance running.

I'm not refering to hormonal levels when I refer to homeostasis, rather internal temperature regulation.

With regard to natural red blood cells in a healthy body, why would more be better? If your normal level is a healthy level and that level doesn't increase as you get fitter, then that is the right level.

What we are constantly bombarded with in literature about endurance sport is that more red blood cells is better because 'it increases oxygen transport'.

This is just nonsense, part of the ridiculous obsession with 'increasing aerobic capacity' which again is a non-scientific belief, but one which is part of conventional wisdom.

What I am saying is that much of the drug obsession of endurance sport is built on this conventional wisdom which is not wisdom at all. Much of this belief ignores the basic physiological fact which is that to improve in any sport you have to improve the efficiency of your movements, which are regulated by the nervous system.

This thread is about improving the efficiency of the work that a runner's feet do, which I believe to be the key to improving overall running efficiency, from which all other improvements can be gained. I'm not discounting the efficiency of other muscle groups, I'm just saying that improving the foot work is the most challenging trial that we face in trying to improve speed endurance.

You "believe" it's the "key". It's merely a piece of the puzzle.

Drugs work.

Now can you tell us why you always resort to calling people who know this actual drug users? You always make some reference to 'fred's drug addled brain etc." as if everyone is ordering EPO online.

Is that the grown up intellectual debate you seek?

Bad Wigins wrote:

You certainly are bad wrote:

Your post is so muddled that it's not even wrong. It's just confused.

What you are trying to say is I'm right, but you wish I weren't, but can't think of a reason why not, so you put on airs instead.

No, I said exactly what I meant. Your posts read exactly like someone who took one undergrad biomechanics class and now thinks he's an expert. You combine rudimentary knowledge with a misplaced confidence derived from who-knows-where, and you write confused posts on letsrun.

What I said about improving foot work refers to using more elastic energy return in all of the skeletal muscles. This has to start with the feet. Can you use your feet more elastically to run at an easy effort but faster pace? How long can you keep that going before your feet fatigue? Something to work on if you have the interest.

As to your second point, just what the heck are you on about?

You certainly are bad wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

What you are trying to say is I'm right, but you wish I weren't, but can't think of a reason why not, so you put on airs instead.

No, I said exactly what I meant. Your posts read exactly like someone who took one undergrad biomechanics class and now thinks he's an expert. You combine rudimentary knowledge with a misplaced confidence derived from who-knows-where, and you write confused posts on letsrun.

Well put him right then. Share your superior knowledge of biomechanics. What have you got to say that will enlighten us all?

Or are you just a smug lurker who thinks he knows better?

you said that having more RBCs does not improve performance.

we said you are stupid because it is clear that EPO and blood doping work.

then you went on about homeostasis for some reason and demanded intelligent debate.

now you are back pedaling and claiming that your running form is the only thing that matters.

you got an intelligent beat down son.