heres a vid of jarmila kratochvilova,and one of her world records

impetus wrote:

I recall her doing resistance type training dragging

heavy weights

A heavy training load is required on top of the steroids

Again people talking through the butts, who have no knowledge of anything.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

When and how did you discover that steroids don't work, Jon?

Except that didn't help you wrote:

impetus wrote:

I recall her doing resistance type training dragging

heavy weights

A heavy training load is required on top of the steroids

Again people talking through the butts, who have no knowledge of anything.

So no weight, no resistance and light training with steroids is the ticket?

of course its not doable without drugs.hello ! if it was,a woman would have done it,by now.and no,she wouldnt have been as fast without steroids,in fact i doubt shed have broken 50.5 in the 400,without them.As for the drugs,its not BS.Most elite athletes are on them.

...Would....

People who promote the idea that drugs help people to run faster are ignorant, and fail to see the forest for the trees.

J.R. wrote:

People who promote the idea that drugs help people to run faster are ignorant, and fail to see the forest for the trees.

How exactly does your tree analogy work? Do you mean that the few obvious dope trees are lost in a forest of dope?

madman lost in the desert wrote:

J.R. wrote:

People who promote the idea that drugs help people to run faster are ignorant, and fail to see the forest for the trees.

How exactly does your tree analogy work? Do you mean that the few obvious dope trees are lost in a forest of dope?

He means that the dope trees are much taller and stronger so you don't notice the clean forest struggling beneath their might.

this is always one of my favorite documents ever :

http://www.clinchem.org/content/43/7/1262.full.pdf

this part was a beauty :

"During the 1975 European Junior Championships in Athens, Greece, the

17-year-old rising 100-m sprint star, Marlies Oelsner, later known as Marlies

Gohr, a world-record holder and Olympic gold medal winner, tested positive

for androgenic steroids but the result was not published by the European Association."

this was woman who smashed the 11.01 of richter in semi of montreal-'76 to an incredible 10.88 in '77

i remember thinking back then that was impossible time off a pretty good wr

also in that document :

"Then in fall 1977, the female shot-put star Ilona Slupianek was

found positive for nandrolone at a Europe Cup meeting in Helsinki and was

banned. However, she was soon allowed to compete again and to improve her German record in the summer of 1978, and in 1980 to win the Olympic gold medal and improve the world record to 22.45 m. These were the only two cases in which GDR athletes had ever publicly tested positive for steroids"

i must admit it is sad, as one of big dopers back then barbel eckert/wockel was an attractive gal

as for drug debate, i do think athletes nowdays are much more talented in-depth than in the '70s/'80s, certainly from 400 & up, but the huge pressures associated nowdays with winning regularly on circuit & attendant prize money for this & bonuses for medals in majors inhibits lotta athletes & clockings as win is paramount not clockings

here is tt last year from the beautiful molly :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwGBfuUSqfk

now, many will say questionable timing - their issue

flying start - just a jogging flying start, not much there in gain

however :

- little drafting from that "awesome bare chested hunk" & she already loses most of that as some serious wide-running

- we don't see bends but she looks pretty wide going into them so i reckon some serious extra distance run

- we don't know how rested she was for it, but certainly not rested for it as vid shows her running behind that "awesome bare chested hunk" before the tt

a "perfect" 800 shoud be rested for good few days

i have absolutely no hesitation in believing she is a clean 1'56 gal at worst, probably more like 1'55+ depending on how much extra run on bends + degree of rest for this run, despite a poor 1'58.68pb

she is capable of possibly 3s quicker than her current pb but the huge pressure of big-time athletics & need for wins not clockings has clearly inhibited her along with many other athletes

today's talent is superb if molly is anything to go by

For OP. Here's an ironic news article. Concern about the 300m record being legit back in 2001!

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/apr/22/sports/sp-54285

"Track: As Jones challenges 300-meter time, confusion again arises over marks set by East Germans."

Hello guys,

as a Czech myself, I have been trying to find any records of J. Kratochvilova training and on the position she had in the doping system, back in the days.

Her coach was a guy, a soldier, most of us wouldn`t want to do anything to do with, let alone train under. He was inhumane. But she had the guts to train under him for several years.

He was so bad with people, that he made many enemies, he and Jarmila were almost completely isolated in Caslav and indeed, there should be( but I never have seen it personally) a record from the formed secret service, that she was on "special care" list of athletes, but that doesn`t mean she was in the doping program. It could mean, that she was sponsored by money, for example, to be able to train purely, not having to go to work and such. They had barely enough money, to be able to train, that`s why they used such primitive training equipment(weight vests, tyres, spiked boots on ice etc.) She was also not a soldier, as you usually had to be, back in the days (svazARM), if you wanted to be able to be taken care of and your activities to be financed by government programs.

As for the resistance training, she did a lot of it, as well as weight training. Weight lifting training of 16-23 tons per session I believe, were standards for her coach. Also, high calories diet(very similar to bricklayer or building site workers meals, I hope you understand what I mean, at least here the guys eat like there`s no tomorrow, high caloric foods) and two training sessions per day, while she was forced(she mostly didn`t wan to) to sleep in between.

From all the materials available(most of it czech and even then scarce), I believe, what her trainer Kvac wanted, as she was fast enough already (used to do sprints), that she would be able to retain the speed, while building incredible endurance. As documented by the 400/800 record runs, which were mere like 1 hour apart. No steroids(as people tend to believe, she did some) do help your body with being able to cope with that.

Also, at that age, female body slightly changes. Most female bodybuilders obtain the most bulk after 28 years of age. From the pictures of her, after she retired, you can see, she has the frame (i mean bone structures), with wide shoulders, I think it had something to do with the hard work she did while being brought up as teenager.

So the physical base for what she did, was there. Immense willpower, she was known for, was there. The inhumane training with lot of resistance and weight lifting, to build muscle mass, was there.

And as for some of you guys, say, "on the picture you can see, she had balls" I`d say perhaps what you can see there, was the beginning of vaginal prolapse, which, given by the kind of strenuous physical activity, she did (BTW Czech former record holder, Roman Sebrle confirmed, that he himself was unable to finish a session of her training), could be entirely plausible.

Would be a shame, if her records (yes, as i think it was unaided for the 47.99) would be erased. In the mind of the people, the athletes would be considered guilty and not the systems, they were part of and being pushed to that. In case of Jarmila, why to push someone to take, if she was good already ? Especially under such a coach, who had 0 friends in the doping system, nor willing to obtain dope. Nonsense. She was his little project, willing to go beyond ordinary human training.

The B12 megadoses, I believe, were there entirely for her body to be able to repair after such brutal trainings. Also, she never, even if reviewed later on, tested positively for doping substances, as well as chromosome testing.

I`d say, what the athletic world witnessed in her example, Is where female non - standard(understand broad shouldered, muscled) body type if prepared from young age, paired with incredible willpower and physically pushed to the absolute limits, can get.

I doubt we will see anyone like that, willing to torture herself to such extents, with a body, able to withstand(tendon fatigue), devoting everything, including family (she had no kids, no lovers, nothing), for being the best. Also, the rivalry witch Maritta Koch, I think, was one of reasons, why she did not gave up and pushed herself even more. The boycott by Eastern bloc depraved her of a possibility for success she wanted, and she was not willing to train further. Which is a sad end to the late bloomers` career.

Blah, blah, blah. If Jarmila wasn't intersex then she was doping. "she never, even if reviewed later on, tested positively for doping substances." There was NO testing in the 1980s. Only after 2009 with the ABP did testing start to be serious and that is mildly and easily circumvented. "The B12 megadoses, I believe, were there entirely for her body to be able to repair after such brutal trainings." Sounds like Jama and his 'vitamins.' Jarmila is 1.3s quicker than Allyson Felix and I'm not sure about her. It is best not to put national heroes on a pedestal as you will only be disappointed when you learn they are only human.

Usual crap about hard training - all fuc*ing olympians, world champions trained hard is that difficult to understand.

Take a look on some pictures and video on this topic about her.

Did any bloody idi*t claiming that she is not full of steroids even take a look on her legs and specially her calves?

Do we even look at the same creature?

She is totally deformed from steroid abuse.

Anyone noted that her world records came when she was 31-32 years old? Nothing strange in that?

She lasted 2 seasons - typical for heavy steroid user at that time.

If eastern block training system was so superior then why they had been so strong only in women and not in men competitions?

Because EVERY women improved with steroids but not every men.

She is the dirties example of doper which EVER step in starting block including Ben Johnson.

Steroids don't give you speed? No idi*t they allow you to train 3 times a day.

Steroids don't give you a power? Check power-lifting records for clean and doped athletes.

Ben Johnson was able to lift 80kg on bench press and after 5 years was able to push 165kg.

Are you "steroids not working" guys aware of that number?

That is more than double of his bodyweight - do you know anyone who can do that personally even today and that he is clean?

Of course there is always possibility that she was early Castor and therefore have no husband / children.

jeff tallon wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZchQ9sh-LE

say what you will,this is an amazing race to watch.kratochvilova and koch were awesome,super talented athletes,and we havent seen their like,since.Yes they likely took industrial strength steroids,but the talent had to be there,to begin with.Its interesting that even with todays full time athletes,drugs,and training improvements,no woman can come close to jarmila kratochvilova,or marita koch.

"Built like a field event athlete." That was a hilarious line from the announcer.

If you pause the video after she finishes and when she raises her arms you can see the hairiest armpits in the world. Even women who choose not to shave can't touch that hair. She must have been filled with more testosterone than the typical Letsrun male.

...BUT, she was only incredible for a couple of years. ...why would an inhumane, soldier coach wait until she was 30 to really push her...and then seemingly stop pushing her much, just a year or so after her peak in 1983 ??? I bet she called the shots...and became determined after the 1982 European 400 defeat, to do all it takes - especially with the worlds and Olympics over next two years + her advancing age. So she and her coach used every method and by 1983 she was better than anyone before or since. (SO good, that Koch chickened out of the World's 400.) ...and then in 1984 with the Olympic boycott, she probably chose to throw in the towel more or less - as far as being the very best. ALSO...did the Czechoslovakian 'secret service' REALLY care that much about athletics ? Always seems crazy to me that what ? - Ronald Reagan is shown a video of the new 800 meter world record and decides to disarm, because if an American lady civilian was chased through a field for 800 meters by a Czechoslovakian lady, chances are she'd catch up to the American and be able to tug her pony-tail ?

I'd rather not.

Not difficult to do that.

Sir, you forgot that those were the days when cancer was at an all-time low as well. So was heart disease, obesity, diabetes AND ANTRHOPOGENIC EMFs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you heard that right sir!!!! When the anthropogenic EMFs are low dose and low exposure, you can get, with or without drugs, herculean high-performance outcomes like Jarmila and Marita of the 1980s, with too lousy shoes to boot!!!!!

Be nice to me though, I'm the only one capable of solving your conundrum and you know it!!! Only I have THAT NOUS, THAT ADROITNESS OF INSIGHT, THAT UNSPEAKABLE DEFT TOUCH OF HINDSIGHT/FORESIGHT or otherwise, even without PERFECTLY 100% OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE or otherwise!!!!

So there you go, you have your answer why Pamela Jelimo of 2008 with her 1:54:01 still couldn't come close to a performance from 1980 or otherwise, spanning 30 years apart!!