6 x 800m with two minutes rest at 1500m pace?

Old Miler Dude wrote:

That's not ludicrous. People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort. Summary: your entire post is wrong.

Source?[/quote]

A source for what?

Fygugu wrote:

Old Miler Dude wrote:

That's not ludicrous. People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort. Summary: your entire post is wrong.

Source?

A source for what?[/quote]

A source for all of the following that you stated: "That's not ludicrous. People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort."

runthecountry wrote:

Wow, a whole lot of twisting of facts going on on both sides!

First of all, the original poster said 4:00 1500 shape ... Dibaba is in WAY better shape than that (and whenever she did this workout, she was clearly in way better shape than 4:00 - I don't care what her PR was at the time).

Second, she is most likely not in 4:00 1600 shape. But she is in much closer to 4:00 1600 shape than 1500 shape. 4:00 1600 (NOT mile) is around 3:43.5 for a 1500. So about 6.5 seconds faster than she ran.

Third, she probably ran that workout with men/pacers who could keep up. How fast could she race a 1500 with a pack of men going faster, with even splits all the way? Maybe 3:48 (at worst)?

That workout (6x800 in 2:01 average) is still crazy for a 3:48 1500 runner, but 3:48 is WORLDS apart from 4:00. So the original premise is false and misleading.

Thanks for clearing it all up oh wise one! Actually, she is in 4 1500m shape as evidenced by the 3:57 she ran right after this workout which was quite a few years ago. That being said, even at her best, 3:50 something 1500m, she still is no where near 4 or sub 4 in the 1600m. Don't you think she would have ran it and set the world record in it if she was? She has already set records at higher paces and since that is in between them and only a hundred meters more than her favorite event, why wouldn't she run it if she get the world record. That's what every one elite has done who ran the 1500m and set a world record. They have at least attempted the mile or 1600m when they thought they could get a WR. So if she didn't and has actually stated that the 3:50 left her basically dead, how in God's name would she be able to set it in 1600m when she stated no way. I doubt they didn't realize she was close with that workout, but if they couldn't get her to even attempt it at a sanctioned meet, I don't think she was there. Plus, if she was around 4 for the 1600m, she would have shattered the 4:12 something mark that is the women's world record in the mile. So again, why in God's name wouldn't she have if she could have?

1500m Man wrote:

Ok, I have a confession.

I think my post is pretty trollish though, so I would rather just fess up than have a bunch of people attacking each other over it.

I laughing so hard right now after reading the above, then seeing him call everybody under the sun idiots, retards ect.

Certainly defending you more than the other guy, but here is how I see it:

4:00 to 3:48 1500 is approximately the same difficulty difference as 3:48 to 3:43.5 1500.

That is just how I see it. From a pure numbers perspective, I would say you are twisting the facts much less, so I'll give you that point!

And I think if Dibaba actually did the workout as stated (6x800 in 2:01 with 2 minutes rest) - then she was in 4:00 1600 shape. BUT, we have not seen anything quite to that level race-wise from her, so I think some part of that workout is not entirely accurate (the average time of the repeats, or the rest time).

Old Miler Dude wrote:

A source for all of the following that you stated: "That's not ludicrous. People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort."

Look it up in the dictionary.

You really can't think of any older runners that have made jumps? Perhaps you aren't qualified to participate in this conversation.

It wasn't her best effort. If I recall correctly, she had at least an 800m segment of that race under 2:00.

You're wrong on all three points. Just give it up.

This back and forth is hilarious. (Is it really two different people posting or one person with a split personality?)

I support the posts of Fygugu.

If she can run 6 X 2:01 w/ 2 min rest, she can easily run a sub 4 mile.

So he's just saying her sub 4 1600 ability allowed her to do that workout.

Of course there is no way she ran 6 X 2:01.

I am sure that didn't happen.

But she did run 3:50 for 1500m which says she can run a 4:08 mile and easily crush the 4:12 WR.

runthecountry wrote:

Certainly defending you more than the other guy, but here is how I see it:

4:00 to 3:48 1500 is approximately the same difficulty difference as 3:48 to 3:43.5 1500.

That is just how I see it. From a pure numbers perspective, I would say you are twisting the facts much less, so I'll give you that point!

.

I'm not twisting the facts at all. I just have a different opinion. She ran under 60 seconds for 1 or 2 laps of that race. I think that indicates somewhere around 3:43 ability not as slow as 3:48. Which is actually true? I don't know but both are reasonable opinions. Considering 3:50 as her best is not reasonable.

Oops, looks like my troll thread had already been done. Sloppy research on my part.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6671187

Star wrote:

So he's just saying her sub 4 1600 ability allowed her to do that workout.

.

Why is this so difficult??? I did not say sub 4 for 1600!

Fygugu wrote:

Old Miler Dude wrote:

A source for all of the following that you stated: "That's not ludicrous. People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort."

Look it up in the dictionary.

You really can't think of any older runners that have made jumps? Perhaps you aren't qualified to participate in this conversation.

It wasn't her best effort. If I recall correctly, she had at least an 800m segment of that race under 2:00.

You're wrong on all three points. Just give it up.

Dictionary? I'm not sure I will find the source of "People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort.," in there. Perhaps you have actual sources? I mean, give me two. Keep in mind, we are talking about at least a 6-sec jump in the 1500, most likely more.

I agree. Did you say, you did ave. 2:01 for 6x800m w/ 2mn recovery? Or is that your training goal? If you can do the above workout, then you can race sub-7:40 3000m.

Old Miler Dude wrote:

Fygugu wrote:

Look it up in the dictionary.

You really can't think of any older runners that have made jumps? Perhaps you aren't qualified to participate in this conversation.

It wasn't her best effort. If I recall correctly, she had at least an 800m segment of that race under 2:00.

You're wrong on all three points. Just give it up.

Dictionary? I'm not sure I will find the source of "People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort.," in there. Perhaps you have actual sources? I mean, give me two. Keep in mind, we are talking about at least a 6-sec jump in the 1500, most likely more.

How is your reading this poor? I gave you three responses for the three things you said. You really can't figure out which one you should look up in the dictionary? I even put the responses in order.

On top of that, you can't think of any runners that have made similar large jumps at older ages? Do you follow running at all??

Fygugu wrote:

Old Miler Dude wrote:

Dictionary? I'm not sure I will find the source of "People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort.," in there. Perhaps you have actual sources? I mean, give me two. Keep in mind, we are talking about at least a 6-sec jump in the 1500, most likely more.

How is your reading this poor? I gave you three responses for the three things you said. You really can't figure out which one you should look up in the dictionary? I even put the responses in order.

On top of that, you can't think of any runners that have made similar large jumps at older ages? Do you follow running at all??

I did not ask for "responses." I asked for a source (a couple of times now) and you have provided none. The onus of proof is on you.

Your insistence that I don't "follow running at all," is a diversionary tactic from the task at hand. Prove me wrong with an equivalent source. No source, no case.

Fygugu wrote:

Old Miler Dude wrote:

Dictionary? I'm not sure I will find the source of "People have made big jumps before at older ages. It also wasn't her best effort.," in there. Perhaps you have actual sources? I mean, give me two. Keep in mind, we are talking about at least a 6-sec jump in the 1500, most likely more.

How is your reading this poor? I gave you three responses for the three things you said. You really can't figure out which one you should look up in the dictionary? I even put the responses in order.

On top of that, you can't think of any runners that have made similar large jumps at older ages? Do you follow running at all??

F You. Seriously, F you and I will leave my contact info if you want it so we can meet up and I will kick your a in the 1500m, 1600m, or mile. Just be consistent in which one you want to get your a kicked in. Stop trying to rewrite history. We can all read just fine. You got smart and were acting like you knew something and when you were proven wrong, you just keep going and going. Well let me clear it up once again for you. SHE CAN'T DO 1600m in FOUR MINUTES. Two minutes may not seem like much to you, but an elite can get their hear rate down so fast after an intense effort. She also could have been building up to that pace. Just because she can do 800m super fast and super quick, doesn't mean she can do it all together. Two minutes is still two minutes and is much different than running 1600 straight. I actually have an athlete like that so i get it. He can brutalize himself with shorter repeats and take literally no break between them, but can't put them together, That is why I am always cautioning him to try and do longer repeats because for what ever reason, he has a mental switch that will not allow him to continue at that said pace. He even said it once to me. He was like I can do two 800m with 40 seconds break incredibly fast, but I can't just keep going. That 40 seconds is a life saver. So we are trying different approaches. Different strokes for different folks i guess. But since she herself said she can't get the 1600m in that time so it was pointless to try, I don't see why you keep saying she can or even that she is that type of shape. Obviously, she is not, even by her own admission.

greatest thread ever!

She EASILY could go under 4 with a male pacer who she could sit behind for the race

Old Miler Dude wrote:

I did not ask for "responses." I asked for a source (a couple of times now) and you have provided none. The onus of proof is on you.

Your insistence that I don't "follow running at all," is a diversionary tactic from the task at hand. Prove me wrong with an equivalent source. No source, no case.

No, I did provide sources. Again, you are displaying a recurring theme here - lack of reading comprehension.

I pointed you towards a dictionary. Are you claiming that a dictionary is not a source?

I pointed out that Dibaba ran some very fast laps in her 3:50.

Sure, I didn't give you specific names for other runners who have done big jumps at older ages, but I shouldn't have to. If you are a legitimate follower of track then you should already know these names.

It's not a diversionary tactic. You just aren't apparently a legitimate fan of track so I'm not going to spoonfeed you information that is easily found after I've already spoonfed you on the other 2 points that are easily found (in a dictionary and in a video or report of her race).

You won't even admit that I provided those sources so why would I continue with you? You won't even acknowledge that you are wrong. You are literally saying that I provided "none" sources when I did.

Fygugu wrote:

Dibaba can do that workout because she can run 1600 in 4:00 not 1500.

Dibaba can run a 4:00 1600? Wow - that's news to me. Why is her PR only 3:50 for the 1500? A 3:50 1500 converts to 4:07 1600. A 4:00 1600 converts to a 3:43 1500. So you're saying she can drop 7 seconds from the WR? I wonder why she decided to just jog that 3:50 then ...