The rising trend of the shaming of fast runners at races.

Ralph the Man wrote:

Me Fail English wrote:

I had an English teach in High School who used to drill it into our heads that it was "Couldn't" care less and that the vast majority of people got it wrong.

I guess it's not that important for All Intensive Purposes.

That's unpossible!

Irregardless of his misuse of the English language, it is now a mute point.

Don't complain about having to overtake slow runners doing a shorter distance at the end of your race - you knew beforehand that was going to happen.

If that riles you don't enter races of that format. It's so simple.

Aside from that, this thread is littered with people seeking external validation for their supposedly good running. Nobody cares. Run for you. If you're good enough win some races, other than that nobody cares aside for your mates who are also into running too.

I mean bloody hell, there's one moron in this thread going on about how some girl he fancies who doesn't know his average pace times. Bloody hell mate, pull yourself together.

Able to speak wrote:

Ralph the Man wrote:

That's unpossible!

Irregardless of his misuse of the English language, it is now a mute point.

The phrase is "moo point", Its like a cow's opinion - it just doesn't matter.

I like the meta humor wrote:

One of the runners heading out, yelled "cheater" at me. At the time, I assumed they were joking, but after the race I started to wonder.

LR has been cultivating this attitude for years.

In fact today on the board AND front page you can find many threads & headlines disparaging top runners, with the founders and numerous posters rejoicing.

What goes around comes around.

I really HATE when some young fast guy shows up at the local yokel 5k I cherry picked to win in 19 minutes as last years winning time was 20:30 and there were 47 joggers. Of course he tempos a 16 flat and I have a great race running 18:56 to smoke all the other joggers by 2 minutes. I still end up a loser.

Unregistered name wrote:

I like the meta humor wrote:

I'm just sad for the state of our "sport," if it can even be called that anymore.

Seriously get over yourself. For being an endurance runner, you sure are thin skinned.

Are you being ironic dude?

This is just a part of the general populist movement in this country. Being good at things is now bad.

Wormus wrote:

I've found that I have two choices:

1. Compete in a serious race with a fast field and a well-designed course. The result is that I get humbled and beat by lots of faster runners, but there's no hostility or confusion about the goal of the event. It's a competition.

2. Compete in a "fun run" style event with mostly slower runners. Feel good about finishing in the top 3, but gets weird looks and hostile vibes during the "back" portion of an out-and-back course.

True. Pick your races carefully, I have had jogging mom's call me As!#ole! Because I accidentally bumped their precious elbow weaving through the crowd. Race directors are partly to blame, by starting slower, longer races before the quicker ones on the very same course.

Alarming, indeed. Next thing you know, they will be INTENTIONALLY blocking our right-of-way to the finish line. Then, it will be physical attacks. Who knows what might ensue after that. We need to unite against this sort of behavior before it gets completely out of hand. A grass roots campaign is in order. Our voices need to be heard. We must be taken seriously. Race Directors must be confronted and made aware, NON-violent protests at races organized, we must take back the respect that is rightfully ours!

I like the meta humor wrote:

[quote]almost but not quite wrote:

0/10

No true runner would grab a gel in a race barely over an hour.

You're probably just trolling, but I will reply to your post to dispel your bad advise.

I've never taken a gel in a Half Marathon before. However, today was 29 degrees with a freezing head wind. The cold makes the body burn more calories, and since it was so cold, I wasn't taking any Gatorade, so I figured a little bit of energy reserve insurance wouldn't hurt. Furthermore, I saw a runner I really respect take some gel at the 12th mile of a Half a couple years ago. I figure if it's not going to slow you down, why not?

I always take gels, bars whatever and stuff my pockets, gotta get my registration money back somehow.

I tend to finish near the top and also take as many post race snacks before the hobby joggers come in, focusing on the packaged stuff instead of bagel slices and half bananas, so i can packrat them back home. It's quite an art really, i've got a special cupboard at home, sorted by Best Before dates, got a really good stash going!... maybe that's why the hobby joggers are pissed off at faster runners.

I do agree that you just need to run for yourself and not get too bent out of shape by what others say or not.

Nevertheless, this happens all the time online as well. I've been a frequenter of other forums in addition to this place, the cloaca of the running internet. At one place a few years back we had a dozen or two fairly dedicated-competitive runners. Ranging from age groupers, or those just trying to improve, to OT qualifiers. A group of joggers wanted to be part of the party, but they said they felt "intimidated". So we welcomed and encouraged them. Somehow they took over the forum and ended up shaming racing, race reports, and training for performance. But they're all over the ultras and the charity runners. The competitive runners left the site.

Another one that I tried out has a weekly race report thread and they acknowledge the "performance" of the week. These often have litte or nothing to do with how some actually races, it's more about how you did relative to your goal or your PR. So a 2:10 half marathoner that has a breakthrough at 2:02 is seen a better result than the 30 min 10K runner going 30:30. And ultras are seen as the ultimate.

But then at the other end of the spectrum is letsrun. Never ceases to amaze me. 13:20 and 13:30 5K runners are regularly bashed (while anyone under about 13:05 is suspected to be on drugs), 14:30 is considered slow, and 15:20 or slower is hobby jogging and worthy of nothing but scorn.

As the weekly or biweekly thread from "Toni" goes, why is everyone on this site so bitter?

OP- really great thread. I've read all the posts to this point and there's been a lot of great points made (despite the trend of negativity starting on pages 3 and 4).

Anyway, I think the one point no one really raised is whether or not there is a cash prize or similar attractive compensation for winning, top 3, etc. If it is your average turkey trot with a 20% off coupon for a bike tune up at your local bike shop on the line, chances are you're going to get some people staring at you for running 16 minutes and finishing 4 minutes ahead of the next guy.

However, if this same turkey trot has $150 award plus an extra $50 for a course record, I highly doubt you'll get those same looks.

Having been in both situations, I have met a mixture of each attitude at both races. It all comes down to whether that person who's personable or outgoing enough to say something, is a nice person or a d!ck.

There's a lot of a**holes in the world, so I honestly don't think it's an overall change in trend like you were saying for the hobby jogger community...There's sometimes just more appropriate opportunities for a d1ck to be a d1ck.

Take care,

pc jr

B man wrote:

Won my turkey trot today, it was a lollipop loop so I ran into some walkers around the 4K mark. One of them incredulously asked me "are you finishing?" As I ran past. Got some annoyed and slightly hostile glances from some walkers as well, even though I went out of my way to avoid them.

I'm with the OP on this. I could care less about the lack of appreciation, but the outright hostility is weird. There definitely is a culture shift you notice at some of these road races. There's a certain percentage of joggers who really seem to dislike or resent the faster runners. I guess they don't view these events as competitive races, and when you treat it as such they get all grumpy. Would love to see someone knowledgable discuss the psychology of that attitude.

I haven't yet experienced the outright hostility, but I noticed a profound shift when I reentered racing back in 2003 after almost 20 years away from the scene. When I left, in the mid-80s, racers dominated and there was no such thing as deliberately "walking" a race. You walked only if you bonked. Nor, back then, were races very often connected with charities. They were put on by running clubs.

Fast forward to 2003. Walking had just started to become a "thing' around then. That was the very beginning. But many races were sponsored by charities; they had notably higher entry fees than I'd become accustomed to, and they were often organizationally flawed--except when the organizers hired the Memphis Runners TC to oversee them, in which case they were trouble-free.

By 2007-2008 or so, I noticed this weird thing. Instead of beginning the awards ceremony by awarding the top overall prizes, to the male and female OA winners, races often began with the youngest AG and cycled right up through every male and female AG, making the OA winners wait until everybody else, all the slower runners, been applauded and given their prizes. By the time the OA winners were announced, half the crowd was gone.

That struck me as insane. Should winners, with their fast times, be inspiring role models?

But that's not how it works now. Now the role models are the disadvantaged people who have suffered the most, and for whom the race--or the walk--is a chance to parade their achievements IN OTHER, NON-RUNNING REALMS, before an admiring public. Breast cancer survivors, the formerly (and currently) overweight, etc.

Actual elite athletes, and the upper 5% of OA and AG folks who in my book constitute and have always constituted, the good/serious runners, violate the new script in some sense. They make it look easy, not hard. They haven't suffered in the acceptable new way. They're not parading anything. They're just running really well.

Running really well, with all the hours of hard training and all the race-day focus that requires, simply isn't the prevailing value at many American races these days.

Ah--and talent. My last sentence should read "Running really well, with all the talent, hours of hard training, and race-day focus that requires, simply isn't the prevailing value at many American races these days."

I agree! I have been running in Turkey Trots, charity 5K's, I even got to run in the 2010 Boston Marathon's 5K. Those races are so much fun! I'm in my late 60's and have a few goals each race. Finish, try to get through it without walking, pick off as many runners as able, hi-five a friend in an out and back and save a little (haha :)) for a kick to the finish line.

Pay no attention to the negative folks. They're not getting the "fun" out of a fun run. Too bad, so sad!

What I do when someone gives me a hard time about running too fast (went 34:30/16:45/5:15 for the Sarah Lawrence men's team, and can still crank out a sub-19 5k at 25) is quote the GOAT: "To give any less than your best is to sacrifice The Gift #prelives".

Why don't you guys just organize your own races with minimum standards to keep out the great unwashed?

40 years of running and racing and I have NEVER seen the thing you describe..

This is really an out of the box way of bragging that you run well.