Can someone provide proof that Androgel is a PED? My brother has been on it (prescribed) and he is not a better runner at this point in time.
Can someone provide proof that Androgel is a PED? My brother has been on it (prescribed) and he is not a better runner at this point in time.
jewbacca wrote:
rojo wrote:They never said they did have proof.
I'm confused here, rojo. Is anyone actually accusing Salazar or not? The original story was all about the allegations leveled against Salazar. Salazar responded and all of a sudden Epstein was saying "nobody ever made those allegations."
Right, what is everyone actually claiming then? What did they "report to USADA"? Can you guys explain, succinctly, what exactly you're trying to do here?
POD!
hobbyjoggist wrote:
Saladbar is obviously a little sketchy, but at least he had the wherewithal to write a logically coherent statement. I would figure Epstein, at least, would have put together some type of normative argument, instead of a bunch of hearsay rolled into a documentary, featuring two burnouts and and an also ran who (unlike in the Lance situation) insist on their own purity?
Didn't every LRC'er already know that Al Sal (and everyone else with the money/sense) was doing everything they could to get every possible advantage, so long as it wasn't going to get them popped for a rules violation? Its not glamorous, but its what the job calls for. It is Rupp's job to run as fast as he can. Its Al Sal's job to make that happen. If NOP is doing anything short of 100% of what is allowed given their resources, than they are doing their job badly.
If people want athletes with clean hands, they should go watch the special olympics.
If Kara had said "I used ______ and had an unfair advantage so ________ and here is my prize money back" I'd believe her. If Magness said "I am unfit to coach because I was part of this and stayed silent for so long, so please accept my retirement" Id believe him. But as of right now they just aren't credible.
Not sure wrote:
LetsRun.com wrote:This.
Steve's response showed nothing. Brojo's, you guys are a mess with this situation. Where was your response about a "passionate" letter from Sal? Huh? Ohhhh, that's right, you are friends with Steve and are pushing this agenda.
This is a witch hunt. Like I have said before though, I can understand the weird occurrences. I can understand everyone knowing Sal and NOP try to get every legal edge they can. I can understand a bunch of people getting together and discussing the weird occurrences, then thinking "ohhhh they must be cheating". Sure. I get how, maybe, this all transpired.
Alberto's response was good. How don't you have some understanding of this? Where was Rojo's response on some of the great points Alberto brought up...where was the response about how this could have been a misunderstanding?
There wasn't. Now Rojo want's to say "heyyyy heyyy now, no one accused him of doping...we were just saying there were weird occurrences and these guys use tents, supplements, etc." Give me a break. Admit you are biased journalists that jumped on a witch hunt with your good buddy.
Hopefully, you haven't gone to bed yet.
We tried to get this up before USAs started but ran out of time.
A reward to those of you still up:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/06/steve-magness-issues-passionate-rebuttal-to-alberto-salazars-open-letter-salazars-statements-actually-confirm-what-i-witnessed-and-what-i-told-to-the-bbcpropublica-reporters-in-their-documen/I honestly don't know what to make of it -- but the charges of the Brojos being biased is absolutely true. Just look at the headline of this article -- a "passionate" response.
Wanting a clean sport is admirable but your reporting methods are often not.
ThisIsFutile wrote:
OK here goes.
I feel like Magness is defending the letter of what he said, but not the spirit. In fact, I think he gets the letter wrong at times too..
The rest of my response is going to assume this: The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules. If you have a problem with this premise, don't bother reading the rest of my post. If this isn't the allegation, or isn't what's to be inferred, show me where Epstein, ProPublica, BBC, Kara Goucher, Magness, or anyone else, says so.
Although Salazar promised he would show that the allegations against him are “false,” his statements actually confirm what I witnessed and what I told to the BBC/ProPublica reporters in their documentary last month.
Magness isn't addressing the allegations. He's using the fact that Salazar confirms the events that transpired are true as support for his allegations. But these events do not show that Salarzar broke doping rules or manipulated rules. There is no disagreement that he sent medication through the mail. Salazar provided email records that support (notice i didn't say "prove," so don't harp on me for this) his claim that these medications didn't break doping rules or manipulate the rules. Magness says Salazar was "making false customs declarations to send controlled substances internationally more than once." While stupid, this does not support the allegation that Salazar broke doping rules or manipulated the rules.
I also provided documentation showing one of his runners was on “testosterone medication” – something Salazar dismisses as a typo for legal supplements, even though it was recorded by a world renowned physiologist who surely knew the difference between a banned substance and a supplement he originally told the BBC was “testoboost” but now cannot remember clearly. Furthermore Salazar tries to portray it as my responsibility to raise the question with Mhyre, a man I never met and whom Salazar had worked with for over a decade.
Nowhere here does Magness accuse Salazar of using testosterone. He implies it, but doesn't come out and say it because he doesn't know. Whether it was testosterone or a supplement has been discussed to death, so I'm not going to discuss it again. My main point here is that Magness does not claim that Salazar used testosterone on Rupp.
Salazar also confirms that he conducted tests on his own son to see exactly how much testosterone gel would trigger a positive drug test result; exactly as I described. He offered excuses for each of these actions including many of the far-fetched rationalizations he originally told as well as a few new ones. But he does not dispute the fact that they happened – a very strange way of proving them “false.”
Again, no accusations here of rules being broken or manipulated. Salazar never intended to prove these events didn't happen. Magness seems to be misinformed if he thinks Salazar said he was going to prove it didn't happen. But Salazar provides email evidence that this test wasn't for microdosing. That's the evidence against the allegation that he broke or manipulated rules. Magness never mentions Salazar's claim that they were investigating it for sabatoge reasons. There is no evidence of microdosing anywhere.
Unfortunately Salazar has also adopted the tactic of character assassination against myself, against Kara and Adam Goucher,
Magness and Kara have both claimed that they left on their own will because of doping concerns. They use this to bolster their argument that it was a serious enough issue that it made them leave. Doesn't this leave Salazar no choice but to provide reasons for them leaving? Suppose what Salazar says about them is true. They would still use the character assassination argument.
Re-read the article again with this premise in mind: "The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules." Notice that there is NO mention of this allegation. Doesn't it seem like Magness might want to address the allegations in his response? This debate is just a bunch of swirling clouds of suspicioan and is a total moving target. Please, Kara, Magness, etc: ADDRESS THE ALLEGATIONS! THATS ALL I CARE ABOUT.
Yes, well put.
Family first wrote:
ThisIsFutile wrote:OK here goes.
I feel like Magness is defending the letter of what he said, but not the spirit. In fact, I think he gets the letter wrong at times too..
The rest of my response is going to assume this: The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules. If you have a problem with this premise, don't bother reading the rest of my post. If this isn't the allegation, or isn't what's to be inferred, show me where Epstein, ProPublica, BBC, Kara Goucher, Magness, or anyone else, says so.
Magness isn't addressing the allegations. He's using the fact that Salazar confirms the events that transpired are true as support for his allegations. But these events do not show that Salarzar broke doping rules or manipulated rules. There is no disagreement that he sent medication through the mail. Salazar provided email records that support (notice i didn't say "prove," so don't harp on me for this) his claim that these medications didn't break doping rules or manipulate the rules. Magness says Salazar was "making false customs declarations to send controlled substances internationally more than once." While stupid, this does not support the allegation that Salazar broke doping rules or manipulated the rules.
Nowhere here does Magness accuse Salazar of using testosterone. He implies it, but doesn't come out and say it because he doesn't know. Whether it was testosterone or a supplement has been discussed to death, so I'm not going to discuss it again. My main point here is that Magness does not claim that Salazar used testosterone on Rupp.
Again, no accusations here of rules being broken or manipulated. Salazar never intended to prove these events didn't happen. Magness seems to be misinformed if he thinks Salazar said he was going to prove it didn't happen. But Salazar provides email evidence that this test wasn't for microdosing. That's the evidence against the allegation that he broke or manipulated rules. Magness never mentions Salazar's claim that they were investigating it for sabatoge reasons. There is no evidence of microdosing anywhere.
Magness and Kara have both claimed that they left on their own will because of doping concerns. They use this to bolster their argument that it was a serious enough issue that it made them leave. Doesn't this leave Salazar no choice but to provide reasons for them leaving? Suppose what Salazar says about them is true. They would still use the character assassination argument.
Re-read the article again with this premise in mind: "The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules." Notice that there is NO mention of this allegation. Doesn't it seem like Magness might want to address the allegations in his response? This debate is just a bunch of swirling clouds of suspicioan and is a total moving target. Please, Kara, Magness, etc: ADDRESS THE ALLEGATIONS! THATS ALL I CARE ABOUT.
Yes, well put.
Completely spot on.
butstill wrote:
What I still don't understand is, here you have a coach in Magness who is worried enough to walk into a stairwell to take a photo of a chart, wait 3 years, and then unleash it on the world. But that's it?
In his 2 years of 'growing concern' and 'ethical moments of self reflection' he's not gathering anything else? He literally takes a single photograph of a chart and absolutely nothing else? Everything else, instead, is hearsay / recollection / and memory? You have go to be kidding me.
No photos of the drugs in the book? Nothing else at all? Huh?
Am I missing something here? How does one go from 'I should take photos of this because this is bad and maybe one day I will need it' to NEVER doing it again for anything else?
He brought a water pistol to a gun fight.
Well I'll start by saying, he doesn't need photos of the book as Alberto admitted it was true. You are mad he doesn't have photo that top coach of is sending drugs across international lines in a hollowed out book, yet the coach admits he did it?
That makes no sense.
ANyways, some people are just too close to this.
Here's what I suggest. Go to a non running co-worker in the cubicle over next to you and walk up to him and say, "Did you hear about Bill Bellicheck. It's come out that he sent Tom Brady drugs in a hollowed out book, tested tesostorone on the ball boys and always travels with tesostrone. I'm irate that people are insinuating that he might have done something wrong."
See how he reacts.
I bet he's VERY interested.
Magness doesn't have anything else because he didn't see anything else. He doesn't have a smoking gun of blatant Tour de France EPO doping. No one seems to. Why do NOP fans keep getting so mad about this?
You guys think that only allegations can be made when everything is 100%. That's not the way trials or investigations work in this country. We have trials and investigations to try to find the truth.
Memo to you, even in the TDF, no one came out with a single photo, bag of EPO, etc from Lance. The guy was one of the biggest international celebrities in the world and doped for years and kept EPO doping hidden from the world. Even when you are doing hard-core stuff, it's not that hard to hide.
I don't get why people slam him for not having more. He's never said he's had more. He and 15 others have thought what they saw at least crossed an ethical line in sport and went to USADA.
It's not Steve's job to convict. What would you prefer he do? Not say a damn thing. Just sit on it. Well guess what buddy? That's why we have a sport with no credibility. For years, people just looked the other way.
Regina pulls out of the Olympics when an EPO test is announced and USATF is still laughing her a the greatest thing since sliced brain. Ridiculous.
Take the Bernie Madoff case. If you aren't a high up, but are asked to change someone's monthly statement because an error was made in it. You do it. You don't know somethign is up but if you are asked to do it every 10 months you should get suspicous and tip off the feds. If someone in the Madoff case had acted like Madoff, people wouldn't have lost billions.
Magness never said he knew for a fact with 100% certainty what happened witht the androgel. He and many others are just very suspicious.
He saw the Nike lab report. He has Alberto's son tell him about the androgel testing and then he knows Alberto has androgel.
And your mad he said something? I'd be irate if he hadn't.
ThisIsFutile wrote:
Hey Rojo,
Thanks for the response. Agreed, if there was proof, maybe we'd see a conviction, but lack of proof doesn't mean innocence. But let's at least agree on this: There are allegations based on provable facts (proof), allegations that aren't provable (for example I remember scores of cyclist saying they had seen Lance Armstrong dope, or even doped with him, but no proof of this), and then there are strong suspicions. Certainly there is no proof (there wasn't much with Lance, but he turned out guilty), but my point is that there aren't even specific allegations. There are just suspicions surrounded by a cloud of (provable, verified) bizarre situations. Maybe specific allegations or even proof are coming, but I haven't seen them yet.
Yes that's the point I'm trying to make.
I agree with you that lack of proof doens't mean innocence but I'll also be the first to admit that suspicious stuff doesn't necessarly mean guilt. Lack of proof could mean innocence.
A global celebrity lance who was followed by hordes of media hid EPO usage - which involves needles - for years. Lets' don't get mad at magness for not having more. He's just reporting what he saw - not inventing shit.
Benjamin Dover wrote:
He took his shot, 2 or 3 years ago, with USADA and he didn't get what he wanted. So he found someone who passes himself off as an ivestigative journalist and tried again.
Dude , stop. You are losing all credibility.
Epstein passes himself off as an investigative journalist?
Read this
http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2013/01/16/selena-roberts-says-lance-armstrongs-admission-of-doping-will-still-be-a-manipulation-of-the-public-and-is-not-even-half-of-the-story/"Selena Roberts, a former reporter with the New York Times and Sports Illustrated, was really at the vanguard of much of the reporting about Lance Armstrong and his doping. Her cover story in the January 24th, 2011 issue of Sports Illustrated (“The Case Against Lance Armstrong“), written with co-author David Epstein, was one of the first instances when the mainstream United States press turned the screws on Lance. "
and this:
"With his colleague Selena Roberts, Epstein broke the story that the Yankees' Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003."
So he took down Lance and Arod and he's a wannabe journalist.
I can only imagine the vitriol Epstein got when he was writing about Lance. It must have been unreal
ThisIsFutile wrote:
OK here goes.
I feel like Magness is defending the letter of what he said, but not the spirit. In fact, I think he gets the letter wrong at times too..
The rest of my response is going to assume this: The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules. If you have a problem with this premise, don't bother reading the rest of my post. If this isn't the allegation, or isn't what's to be inferred, show me where Epstein, ProPublica, BBC, Kara Goucher, Magness, or anyone else, says so.
Although Salazar promised he would show that the allegations against him are “false,” his statements actually confirm what I witnessed and what I told to the BBC/ProPublica reporters in their documentary last month.
Magness isn't addressing the allegations. He's using the fact that Salazar confirms the events that transpired are true as support for his allegations. But these events do not show that Salarzar broke doping rules or manipulated rules. There is no disagreement that he sent medication through the mail. Salazar provided email records that support (notice i didn't say "prove," so don't harp on me for this) his claim that these medications didn't break doping rules or manipulate the rules. Magness says Salazar was "making false customs declarations to send controlled substances internationally more than once." While stupid, this does not support the allegation that Salazar broke doping rules or manipulated the rules.
I also provided documentation showing one of his runners was on “testosterone medication” – something Salazar dismisses as a typo for legal supplements, even though it was recorded by a world renowned physiologist who surely knew the difference between a banned substance and a supplement he originally told the BBC was “testoboost” but now cannot remember clearly. Furthermore Salazar tries to portray it as my responsibility to raise the question with Mhyre, a man I never met and whom Salazar had worked with for over a decade.
Nowhere here does Magness accuse Salazar of using testosterone. He implies it, but doesn't come out and say it because he doesn't know. Whether it was testosterone or a supplement has been discussed to death, so I'm not going to discuss it again. My main point here is that Magness does not claim that Salazar used testosterone on Rupp.
Salazar also confirms that he conducted tests on his own son to see exactly how much testosterone gel would trigger a positive drug test result; exactly as I described. He offered excuses for each of these actions including many of the far-fetched rationalizations he originally told as well as a few new ones. But he does not dispute the fact that they happened – a very strange way of proving them “false.”
Again, no accusations here of rules being broken or manipulated. Salazar never intended to prove these events didn't happen. Magness seems to be misinformed if he thinks Salazar said he was going to prove it didn't happen. But Salazar provides email evidence that this test wasn't for microdosing. That's the evidence against the allegation that he broke or manipulated rules. Magness never mentions Salazar's claim that they were investigating it for sabatoge reasons. There is no evidence of microdosing anywhere.
Unfortunately Salazar has also adopted the tactic of character assassination against myself, against Kara and Adam Goucher,
Magness and Kara have both claimed that they left on their own will because of doping concerns. They use this to bolster their argument that it was a serious enough issue that it made them leave. Doesn't this leave Salazar no choice but to provide reasons for them leaving? Suppose what Salazar says about them is true. They would still use the character assassination argument.
Re-read the article again with this premise in mind: "The allegations are that Alberto Salazar broke doping rules or unethically manipulated the rules." Notice that there is NO mention of this allegation. Doesn't it seem like Magness might want to address the allegations in his response? This debate is just a bunch of swirling clouds of suspicioan and is a total moving target. Please, Kara, Magness, etc: ADDRESS THE ALLEGATIONS! THATS ALL I CARE ABOUT.
This ^^^^^^^ is much to well reasoned and thought through for a LR poster.
rojo wrote:
ThisIsFutile wrote:Hey Rojo,
Thanks for the response. Agreed, if there was proof, maybe we'd see a conviction, but lack of proof doesn't mean innocence. But let's at least agree on this: There are allegations based on provable facts (proof), allegations that aren't provable (for example I remember scores of cyclist saying they had seen Lance Armstrong dope, or even doped with him, but no proof of this), and then there are strong suspicions. Certainly there is no proof (there wasn't much with Lance, but he turned out guilty), but my point is that there aren't even specific allegations. There are just suspicions surrounded by a cloud of (provable, verified) bizarre situations. Maybe specific allegations or even proof are coming, but I haven't seen them yet.
Yes that's the point I'm trying to make.
I agree with you that lack of proof doens't mean innocence but I'll also be the first to admit that suspicious stuff doesn't necessarly mean guilt. Lack of proof could mean innocence.
A global celebrity lance who was followed by hordes of media hid EPO usage - which involves needles - for years. Lets' don't get mad at magness for not having more. He's just reporting what he saw - not inventing shit.
Thanks for the responses. I think that is a good way to look at it. To be fair in the same regard, while its not fair to get mad at Magness for not having more evidence, do you think it is fair to get mad at him for manipulating his testimony? Based on everything that has been presented by both sides, it seems to be far, far more probable than not that he lied in his testimony. He acted like he had no clue about why Rupp's urine sample was being tested by the Meyo clinic, claimed he found pills (which were Z pills in a magazine and nasal spray in the book) instead of the nasal spray, and may have been untruthful about his departure from NOP. All of the actual evidence that has been provided suggest that he was dishonest in those areas. Can't we be upset or question him for lying?
rojo wrote:Here's what I suggest. Go to a non running co-worker in the cubicle over next to you and walk up to him and say, "Did you hear about Bill Bellicheck. It's come out that he sent Tom Brady drugs in a hollowed out book
Until the NEP starts playing at least half their games in Europe, having their deflated balls and equipment held up at customs, risking it arriving too late, that question is totally pointless.
Roelants wrote:
In the end, the main accusation is that Galen is cheating. The vials were explained. The pills in the book were explained (stupid but not cheating). The mayo test was explained. I don't care much about inhalers. There are the unusual androgel test stories and explanations. So, how can you ever know? At this point , I assume UsADA has looked into all this since 2013 and I'll just watch with that knowledge and wait for anything substantive to come out from USADA.
At least in the U.S. we have an agency looking into this. It's good that people came forward with concerns but then we should trust the process. In other countries they do not have agencies like this. The testosterone, etc. is cheap and accessible enough for others to cheat. So the U.S. Is doing more than others and that is something. It may not be perfect but it probably is not as corrupt as what cycling had.
i don't think there is much more to be learned in the back and forth. The Gouchers and Magness can raise concerns to USADA and can choose to go on camera. Salazar responded and was within his rights . I think it's fair to address circumstances of departure when people say they left due to ethical concerns. But I am not going to spend too much energy on that. I don't know that there is much to learn in the cytomel debate,
Now maybe people can stop slamming each other and calling each other idiots or worse.
Thank you. A great post.
But the reason why I get passionate is because Steve is doing something courageous and getting slammed by many on here and Alberto.
It's absurd. Steve had little to gain and a lot to lose in talking to USADA.
But I think the tirde is turning in the anti-doping fight. When I talk to people about wrongdoing involving doping they often say, "I can't talk that about thay because of my job." I get that fear. We need money to live.
But i also say, "I think the tide is turning. Soon you won't be blackballed out of the industry. Soon you may be a hero."
Mac Feet wrote:
I think that shows more trust in the athletes than the coach. Salazar is still writing the workouts and these are professional athletes. It's not like Galen Rupp is gonna be like, "nah I think I'll go to the bar instead of the track today"
I agree with you that the athletes won't just skip out on the workout and go to the bar, but there's more to it than the time on the track. It would be like being put in charge of a huge project team at a normal job and then a week before the presentation to your bosses you turn the oversight of the project over to the punk intern you don't trust. This is your life and your reputation on the line. You're NOT going to leave the leadership of something this important in the hands of someone you don't trust. No matter how competent your co-workers are.
AlSal would not leave something so important in the hands of a guy he has no confidence in. No coach would - especially on that stage.
IMHO, there's a lot of vagueness (if that's even a word) on both sides. I'm not sure if NOP is technically guilty of anything. I think most would concede that AlSal bends the rules where he can, but that's not damning in any significant way. But do I find Magness' arguments and defense far more plausible than those of Salazar. For whatever that's worth.
YOU NEED TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION. My handle is MONTESQUIEU--please note the spelling of the last four letters: UIEU. The handle is password protected. The poster used MONTESQUEIU. It's not me. It's a joke on someone else's part. It makes light of the fact that I pointed out that when Epstein quotes Areson that Salazar handed out prescription drugs like candy, he apparently did not press her on that--what drugs? when? did she witness this? how often? etc. That is, a good investigative journalist is doing just that, investigating, and attempting to discern the truth.
SelectiveReading wrote:
You need to pay closer attention, Montesquieu.
Magness said clearly in the original Epstien article that there were 2 pills in the book. Epstien also has an email from another case where Alberto said he sent Celebrex inside of a magazine. And now Alberto has publlshed emails where he admits to sending hollowed out books with medicine himself.
All of these items are - at minimum - prescription drugs. In most countries it is illegal to mail prescriptions across an international border without the proper customs declarations. Alberto's own emails EXPLICITLY say that he used hollowed out books to make sure the medicines he sent "clear" customs - i.e. he just admitted to a criminal offense.
The severety of that offense may be determined by what those substances were, and that could range from something mild like Celebrex or the nasal spray to something more severe. But the fact is he did send them, he admits to sending them, and it was illegal to do so since he misrepresented them on the customs form.
I wonder why it is...
That the same prudes who purport to be so upset about Magness and Areson - two consenting adults of the same age - being in a relationship are also completely unconcerned about their hero Alberto making unwanted passes at Kara Goucher?
ya..... wrote:
jewbacca wrote:I'm confused here, rojo. Is anyone actually accusing Salazar or not? The original story was all about the allegations leveled against Salazar. Salazar responded and all of a sudden Epstein was saying "nobody ever made those allegations."
Right, what is everyone actually claiming then? What did they "report to USADA"? Can you guys explain, succinctly, what exactly you're trying to do here?
Yes Ill explain what people mean when people say "Epstein never made those allegations."
A large part of Salazar's rebuttal was spent denying things never alleged by David Epstein. It was very clever by Salazar.
Salazar's rebuttal spent a long time talking about prednisone. For example he wrote:
Salazar wrote:
The claims that Galen has been on prednisone continuously since he was 15 are absolutely false. The BBC and ProPublica “reporters” were informed that these allegations were completely false, and they should not have printed them. Printing false statements to harm Galen is irresponsible journalism that damaged an innocent athlete’s reputation.
But Epstein never said Rupp was on prednisone continuously since he was 15. Read the article and hit control F for prednisone:
https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rulesMoving on,, Alberto Salazar tried to deny allegation that provided non-prescribed Cyotemel to Kara Goucher in a handwritten vial by providing a statement from Dr. Brown saying he had Kara on Cyotmel in August of 2011.
But that wasn't the allegation. So Alberto is making up an allegation that seems similar and denying it away with a note from Dr. Brown. The allegation was that she was directed to take Cytomel in March of 2011 and that it came in a handwritten vial. Dr. Brown says nothing about March but did tell David Epstein he'd never give a patient a pill in a handwritten vial.
So Salazar made up a similar allegation and denied that one way.
I thikn it's also worth noting that Salazar never addressed the 2nd Epstein report when 3 other ex NOP atheltes alleged prescription drug abuse. Those didn't get as much traction as they didn't use their names. But I don't think he addressed the allegation he gave out prescription pain pills.
2nd article here:
http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rulesMagness did the right thing in coming out with the testosterone log, the testosterone experiments, and Alberto's Androgel. But it's hard to believe he suspected any wrongdoing with the pills in the book. I would have hid the pills just as Alberto did if I feared the customs would delay them. There's a big chance that customs open ANY package. And Alberto isn't so stupid that he sends dope overseas. Sorry, nothing to see here. It was a funny story, and maybe it was necessary in order to stir the pot, but Magness must have understood that there weren't any illegal products in that book.
The only thing that's interesting is whether Galen has been micro dosing testosterone over a long time. (I believe so.) The other allegations are pretty boring.
Post it wrote:
This is all a bunch of BS
It doesn't matter whether this makes me like Magness or hate him or believe him or not believe him, or think he is a swell guy or that he is a dork.
There are no concrete accusations here. He relayed three or four occurrences that he either observed or took part in. Salazar Addressed each one and explained them and had email back up with Magness copied, to provide context. A perfect example of this is the urine test at the mayo clinic and all the email back up where it was discussed with US officials. Why didn't Magness correct the documentary makers and tell them that there was context for this, that it wasn't a secret operation, and that it all made logical sense. And why doesn't he address it in this impassioned rebuttal if it's incorrect. How about some good reporting, and pursuing this question with magness, Instead of droning on about character assassination. Instead of droning on about character assassination, last time I checked, that's not a violation that any of us should be worried about
Here's the question(s) that matter, was Magness ever asked to take part in a cover-up or witness anybody in the program doing anything illegal, mainly doping, or microdosing. Did he ever see anybody doping. Did Salazar or anyone else on the team ever talk about doping or confide in him that there was doping going on? If the answer to all these questions is no, then everything Magnus has put forth serms to be nothing more than some observations and feelings he had. If that's all he has to go on, then this is nothing more than his perspective, his feelings, and how he has chosen to colorize it.
If that's all he has to go on, then this is nothing more than his perspective, his feelings, and how he has chosen to colorize it.
At this point, there either needs to be some concrete accusations, not innuendo, not interpretation, or the story needs to stop. Seriously. If he can't refute salazars explanations, then he shouldn't bother with a response.
hear hear!
but his response was fast... because that matters (?)
these guys have nothing and should go home before they embarass themselves further. because frankly, if I was Magness/Propublica/BBC, I'd be embarassed already.
rojo wrote:
Yes Ill explain what people mean when people say "Epstein never made those allegations."
A large part of Salazar's rebuttal was spent denying things never alleged by David Epstein. It was very clever by Salazar.
Salazar's rebuttal spent a long time talking about prednisone. For example he wrote:
Salazar wrote:
The claims that Galen has been on prednisone continuously since he was 15 are absolutely false. The BBC and ProPublica “reporters” were informed that these allegations were completely false, and they should not have printed them. Printing false statements to harm Galen is irresponsible journalism that damaged an innocent athlete’s reputation.
But Epstein never said Rupp was on prednisone continuously since he was 15. Read the article and hit control F for prednisone:
https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules
Salazar addressed those allegations because they have been widely perpetuated on these forums and other places. You already know this, and are trying to spin it like you've never heard that before. He made rebuttals to many allegations in this statement, probably because he already had the lawyers on hand to assist with it.
rojo wrote:
Moving on,, Alberto Salazar tried to deny allegation that provided non-prescribed Cyotemel to Kara Goucher in a handwritten vial by providing a statement from Dr. Brown saying he had Kara on Cyotmel in August of 2011.
But that wasn't the allegation. So Alberto is making up an allegation that seems similar and denying it away with a note from Dr. Brown. The allegation was that she was directed to take Cytomel in March of 2011 and that it came in a handwritten vial. Dr. Brown says nothing about March but did tell David Epstein he'd never give a patient a pill in a handwritten vial.
So Salazar made up a similar allegation and denied that one way.
I thikn it's also worth noting that Salazar never addressed the 2nd Epstein report when 3 other ex NOP atheltes alleged prescription drug abuse. Those didn't get as much traction as they didn't use their names. But I don't think he addressed the allegation he gave out prescription pain pills.
2nd article here:
http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rules
Again, where is Kara's proof that the situation in March ever happened! Salazar SPECIFICALLY included the statements of him being "thrilled" with her weight prior to Boston because Kara alleges that he tried to give her Cytomel for the weight problem, read again the statement again with open eyes and you'll see this!
THEN for the sake of completeness, he brings up a situation which Kara COULD have been confused about, which is the singular time he EVER told her to take Cytomel. Again, to be thorough in addressing the allegation. You already know this and are acting like you don't.
Last, on Magness, "Courage" was taking what he saw, or thinks he saw, to USADA for investigation. "Sleazy" is going around that system when it didn’t give him the retribution he wanted and at worst lying, at best exaggerating what he saw while at NOP. Yeah , Salazar admitted he did some strange things, but explained why and corroborated it. Magness blew his entire load, and is now stepping back on what he said and trying to appeal to our “emotions”.
What he did with Epstein is not courageous. No one here thinks that except you for some reason. Just take a look around your own forums. Tons of people , myself included, with registered usernames who have even said bad things about NOP in the past believe Salazar is not running some underground doping ring as you would suggest. We don’t even believe he’s doing anything against the rules or even against the SPIRIT of the rules. Is it wrong to ship pills across the border? Yes. Does it have anything to do with these allegations? A RESOUNDING NO! Is it strange he would test sabotaging on his sons? Yes. Was this ALREADY what those who came forward said his intentions were for it? YES! Does this have anything to do with these allegations? A RESOUNDING NO!
I’ve posted here for years rojo. You can take one look at my account and see that. You could probably even dig up a bunch of stupid shit I’ve said and hold it against me if you wanted to. But these are my true thoughts from a fan of the sport, and for the time being a fan of LetsRun.com. Please don’t’ do anything stupid to change either of those.