BUTLER!!!!!!!!!

there are decent runners in that conference, but when a team finishes 4'th at ncaa's, its tough for any small school to hang with them.

you score only americans, and the team scores look totally different. sad when your all-conference runners are from another country.

Their team is 4th in the nation of course they are excited. That doesnt mean they are a true team. A true team wouldn't need to bring in a whole team of foreigners. Its one thing to have a couple foreigners but a whole team is insane.

Don't look like that.

Go Dawgs! Great racing Monday.

Lois Joslin didn't go to Loughborough, The Loughborough connection started with Nathan Dosanjh

yeah i can run, and have ran at ncaa's. like i said, nice job on placing 4'th, but the whole team should not be made of foreigners. i sure as heck wouldn't even look at butler if i was in high school b/c i know i would be forced to run podunk meets until i got down to 14:30 or something. instead i will go to a school where i run varsity, drop my times, and then beat whoever butler throws in the mile.

as a side note, i know all of the coaches in the conference. every coach i have made an attempt to talk to, has been nice and has talked to me. coach franklin has not once said hi to me. that doesnt rank him very high on my list, even for being personable.

now if that is you sherman, i will say, atleast you were somewhat personable, as was blackman, but the fraziers weren't, and neither was tucker when he ran.

You should be glad that the Brits are giving up a couple of years to kick your sorry arses into shape. If you can't beat them then don't criticise them, running is very simple, the only way to make people listen is to beat them.

Next you'll be banning every other country bar the US from the Olympics.

If you are any good you'll have to get used to running against overseas athletes at some point so why not start now, these guys are doing you a favour rather than you running all your races in an 'American Bubble' and actually thinking you are any good.

Lawsy should have run the trial, he'd have made the team on his NCAA performance, it was wet and muddy...

You make it sound like you all predicted butler to finish 4th. On the prediction contest you all had Butler finishing 7th. Wejo how many predicted butler to finish in the top 4? The few that did were probably just the few butler fans. So what makes this impressive is the fact that before the race you didn't think Butler could do it. Now you come on here saying they should of done it. What a bunch of shit.

On a side note, Joe's not just a good coach but the greatest guy you can meet. But I ran at a d2 school so I am probably slow and stupid.

Can someone also clear up the difference between the Cu's getting Vaughn,Schoolmeister,Pifer, severyect,, Wisco, tegencamp,keller,Biuru, spiker, solinksyect...all state champs sub 9 2milers at 17. then what's Butler's getting? When did running turn into a race issue? It's all about the performance on the day, take the results and they speak for them selves...its all about being the best you can be and thats what Joe and BUtler are doing. SO just continue getting your asses kicked by butler and enjoy it.

U.S. recruits have come to look at Butler and been put off immediately by the foreigners. I know for a fact that I made a number of U.S. recruits to feel as welcome as possible but they said to me that "my Dad/ or coach doesn't want me to run with foreigners, so I doubt I'll come here".

People are put off by a few strange accents. The U.S. guys that run at butler have all improved dramatically and so have the girls. They have learnt alot from the continental athletes. People like Mark Tucker and Rebecca Lyne have acted as role models and brought huge pr's to a number of runners at Butler. Joe Franklin will continue to recruit foreigners until a stud high school american gets the balls to contact Joe Franklin and train with some top foreign athletes. Bob Kennedy came to london and trained with the Kenyan's.....that got him a 12:58 PR. He had the balls to try somthing different.

Arkansas are practically the same, why don't we have a stab at them.....they've been at it for years.

Well done Butler and Joe Franklin, keep doing what you are doing and maybe one day a decent Yank will try and run with a few weird foreign guys and become a true all-american at Butler.

this idea that Butler is good team simply because they have foreigners is not so cut and dry. some of you blokes here act as if just because you're foreign that you're tougher, more talented runners. not true! what makes a team like Butler so special is that all these guys are are upper classmen with a few more years of experience than most of their competitors. The average age of Butler's top five men at NCAA's was 22.4 years...how many other teams at Nats had that kind of experience up front. BYU probably has the highest average age...but honestly these guys basically stop running for 2-3yrs while they're on their mormon missions. Not to mention there is only a select number of athletes in which to recruit to BYU. I don't want to hear how all these Butler athletes are within the age limits of the NCAA, because I'm well aware of the rules and regulations of our governing body. They're all eligible...but that's not the point. Laws is 24 years old...how nice would it be to be competing at the NCAA level at age 24. I was 21 years old my senior year in cross, just as most American runners are during their senior year in college. It only makes sense that this team should be pretty talented with that much maturity and experience...that's what made Stanford so tough a few years back. You just don't see many teams like Butler these days that have 5-6 guys of that age and talent on a team together. Here's a look at the top eight teams and their average age of the top five finishers on their respective squads...

1) Colorado - 19.8yrs, CU has no foriegn athletes.

2) Wisco - 20.1yrs, Bairu is Canadian

3) Arkansas - 21.2yrs, 3 foreigners of top five

4) Butler - 22.4yrs, 5 foreigners of top five

5) BYU - 22.8yrs, BYU has no foreign athletes.

6) Stanford - 20.8yrs, no foriegners

7) Iona - ages?, but ALL FOREIGNERS OF TOP FIVE

8) AZ St. - 21yrs, no foreigners

I'm guessing Iona's average age is pretty high as well...considering all their top five runners are foreign too. It's crazy...of the top 8 teams the only two that really don't have at big name in collegiate athletics is Butler and Iona, who both are made up of all foreigners up front. Guess that's the route to go. But I'm tired of hearing individuals acting as if teams are better because they are foriegn-laden. It has nothing to do with their nationality...in most cases it's maturity and experience. I'm not saying these guys aren't talented, but given a few more years to mature we'd have many more Americans running at a higher level in NCAA's. By ages 23 or 24...most American runners are former collegiate athletes who have called it quits.

scott and olly from the world famous Butler!

we love you over here in England!!!

I wouldn't go a far as calling Butler world famous just yet! You'd need to travel about 150 miles north to this quaint little community called South Bend to find a world famous university.

World Famous, eh mate?

What is so "world famous" about being an overrated horrible football team?

What is so "world famous" about being ranked 5th in the polls, choking, and placing 11th?

World Famous

honestly...i'm not sure what "world famous" is. all i know is that it's not Butler.

Would the Lufbra guys get into Notre Dame for grad school - I wonder...

Congrats on some great running though lads.

And no mention of how all this foreign recruiting began...the great Julius Mwangi, then James Siele. Some former American Butler athletes not only weren't scared or put-off of by running with foreigners but preferred it. Having the opportunity to train with Julius or James or Frasier Thompson is a major benefit for young, inexperienced American athletes. It exposes them to a different way of not only training but thinking, especially in race preparation and race stragedy.

Joe is a very good guy, and a hell of a recruiter. He deserves all the respect he is given.

lets just clarify - whoever sherman was, it was not the ANDREW SHERMAN from Butler university...

thanks

Andrew Sherman, Butler University

You should register this name. By the way how is Kent Wories turning out? I think he has some potential and isn't afraid of hard work. Smart, Smart kid.

What happened with Mwangi? Why did he transfer in the midst of this senior year and after a top-10 finish at Nats? I'm pretty sure Franklin never did much with this guy...I heard he kind of ran his own show.

Siele...he's the guy from Meridian CC. How did Butler get this kid in school?

Siele did not make it at Butler for long. Let's just say that he did not make the grades and left Butler.