The 2011 Centro would win. He had the WC :51 close in a 3:36 race. At a typical USATF right now, I'd slightly favor Nick- but favor Manzano over both to win.
The 2011 Centro would win. He had the WC :51 close in a 3:36 race. At a typical USATF right now, I'd slightly favor Nick- but favor Manzano over both to win.
The only way Symmonds beats Centro in a 1500 is if he can turn it into an 800 meter jog followed by an all out final 700, aka a repeat of the Moscow 1500. Even then Symmonds isn't an 800 front runner so he'd still be out of his element if he tried to pull a Jurgen Straub move in a slow starting 1500.
Most dedicated 800 runners aren't trained to run negative splits, while most dedicated 1500 runners are.
Didn't Symmonds run a 1500 in Europe at the end of the season? got to take a look...
time to google... wrote:
Didn't Symmonds run a 1500 in Europe at the end of the season? got to take a look...
3:34.55 in 2013.
Here's Johnny Gray and Doug Padilla facing off in the 1500 at the 1990 Modesto relays. Kickers race, speed vs strength.
Mel wrote:
Here's Johnny Gray and Doug Padilla facing off in the 1500 at the 1990 Modesto relays. Kickers race, speed vs strength.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elNGqkEj5Eo
OK, the strength won out here but Gray probably wins if he runs a smarter race...
wtf? Gray had no chance at beating Padilla. If he couldn't take Padila whene he was sick he was never going to beat him. [
Loxsom has gotten a kick this year though. He won a few races & got 2nd at USA's, first year as a pro. So maybe training can develope it.
Shacka boom wrote:
wtf? Gray had no chance at beating Padilla. If he couldn't take Padila whene he was sick he was never going to beat him. [
You are not very bright. Nobody said Padilla was at full strength, just that Gray probably could have beaten him in this race if he'd run smarter. Please try to think for once...
malmo wrote:
Only fools subscribe to equivants like that. Whats a 4:00 "equivalent" in the 400? Why does that matter to you if you're running four times that distance.
I was talking about 1500 to mile you dotard. 3:40 = sub 4.
which indicates you could average 59 something for 4 laps but only 57 something for two. Which suggests a relatively slow 400 speed. You seem offended so I'll assume I was correct.
jonesy johnson wrote:
Shacka boom wrote:wtf? Gray had no chance at beating Padilla. If he couldn't take Padila whene he was sick he was never going to beat him. [
You are not very bright. Nobody said Padilla was at full strength, just that Gray probably could have beaten him in this race if he'd run smarter. Please try to think for once...
Seems to me Gray ran the best race possible. What is smarter, bright guy?
An 800 would have been smarter.
malmo wrote:
jonesy johnson wrote:You are not very bright. Nobody said Padilla was at full strength, just that Gray probably could have beaten him in this race if he'd run smarter. Please try to think for once...
Seems to me Gray ran the best race possible. What is smarter, bright guy?
Gray should have drafted as long as possible but he did almost the opposite which likely cost him the race. Malmo, you need to try to be objective as this race perhaps in your eyes goes against your argument in this thread, but it is more nuanced than that, and one is not necessarily related to the other in terms of being dispositive...
I should amend the above to state that Gray winning this race would perhaps in your eyes go against your argument but it is more nuanced than that....
Bad Wigins wrote:
malmo wrote:Only fools subscribe to equivants like that. Whats a 4:00 "equivalent" in the 400? Why does that matter to you if you're running four times that distance.
I was talking about 1500 to mile you dotard. 3:40 = sub 4.
which indicates you could average 59 something for 4 laps but only 57 something for two. Which suggests a relatively slow 400 speed. You seem offended so I'll assume I was correct.
Why would I be offended? Equivalents are like opinions [...]- everyone has one.
It doesn't "indicate" anything. My best 800 was 1:54.0, three times Twice indoors and once outdoors. All that says is that in a long sprint my body doesn't respond well. My best 400 is 52.2. My best lap in a 1500 (3:42.2) was 53.7. Which illustrates the point of this thread, top end speed is as common as muck. Its what you do with it at the end of a race is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Dotard? That must be equivalent tp striped bass?
jonesy johnson wrote:
malmo wrote:Seems to me Gray ran the best race possible. What is smarter, bright guy?
Gray should have drafted as long as possible but he did almost the opposite which likely cost him the race. Malmo, you need to try to be objective as this race perhaps in your eyes goes against your argument in this thread, but it is more nuanced than that, and one is not necessarily related to the other in terms of being dispositive...
You're the one not being objective. The evidence was right in front of your eyes. No amout of drafting was going to help Gray. He was thoughly extended, and it was a great effort for him. For Padilla it was nothing more than another day at the office.
OK, we can agree to disagree, but you seem to be saying that drafting does NOT help, which is really beneath your intelligence, as you are in essence asserting that drafting would not have mitigated the deleterious effects of being "extended," as the smart line of thought is that smart drafting would have prevented Gray from being so spent at the finish. But you are welcome to remain recalcitrant in your view, as inevitably you will...
?
jonesy johnson wrote:
OK, we can agree to disagree, but you seem to be saying that drafting does NOT help, which is really beneath your intelligence, as you are in essence asserting that drafting would not have mitigated the deleterious effects of being "extended," as the smart line of thought is that smart drafting would have prevented Gray from being so spent at the finish. But you are welcome to remain recalcitrant in your view, as inevitably you will...
Drafting helps a tiny bit. Even so the problem with this phantom theory is that Gray wasn't leading the race until the pacers drpped out with a lap to go.If you are going to argue he lost the race because if that your words are going to fall on deaf ears...it doesn't pass the giggle test.
Recalcitrant? Go to the mirror son.
malmo wrote:
?
jonesy johnson wrote:OK, we can agree to disagree, but you seem to be saying that drafting does NOT help, which is really beneath your intelligence, as you are in essence asserting that drafting would not have mitigated the deleterious effects of being "extended," as the smart line of thought is that smart drafting would have prevented Gray from being so spent at the finish. But you are welcome to remain recalcitrant in your view, as inevitably you will...
Drafting helps a tiny bit. Even so the problem with this phantom theory is that Gray wasn't leading the race until the pacers drpped out with a lap to go.If you are going to argue he lost the race because if that your words are going to fall on deaf ears...it doesn't pass the giggle test.
Recalcitrant? Go to the mirror son.
An intellectually honest person would recognize that Gray was NOT close enough to the pacers to benefit from drafting in any meaningful way, certainly not after the first 400m or so, and following pacers may have little to do with whether one is crafty enough to be drafting. Gray did NOT run a smart race, and certainly Padilla was much craftier in his tactics, which is no surprise...You need to watch the race again with my insights at hand.
malmo wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:I was talking about 1500 to mile you dotard. 3:40 = sub 4.
which indicates you could average 59 something for 4 laps but only 57 something for two. Which suggests a relatively slow 400 speed. You seem offended so I'll assume I was correct.
Why would I be offended? Equivalents are like opinions [...]- everyone has one.
It doesn't "indicate" anything. My best 800 was 1:54.0, three times Twice indoors and once outdoors. All that says is that in a long sprint my body doesn't respond well. My best 400 is 52.2. My best lap in a 1500 (3:42.2) was 53.7. Which illustrates the point of this thread, top end speed is as common as muck. Its what you do with it at the end of a race is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Dotard? That must be equivalent tp striped bass?
Dammit, 3:40 is equivalent to sub 4. That's all I meant by "equivalent" and it's not even remotely debatable.
As for the "point of this thread," i.e. your point not the OP's, precious few milers ran sub-47 besides Coe and Kiprop. What a coincidence that both were known as the most devastating kickers of their eras, if top end speed isn't so important.
Sure, not everyone who runs a fast 400 will run a fast mile. But almost everyone who runs a fast mile will run at least a fast 800 if not a fast 400. Particularly the best kickers: Ngeny, 1:44. Morceli, 1:44. Cram, 1:42. Aouita, 1:43. Souleiman, 1:43. Certainly El G would have been 1:44 or better. Centrowitz is never gonna get below 3:30, nor outkick the likes of Kiprop, Kiplagat, Souleiman or Makhloufi, until he gets the speed. The blazing fast rip-snorting speed. Symmonds obviously can't do that either but he could have if he'd moved up years ago, because he had the speed.