Controversy at CO State Meet

The winner of the race in question ran 20:30. It is doubtful anyone in that pack will run collegiately, unless it is for a small school. This may be the only and last time these girls are members of a sports team, so this coach might be the LAST coach to ever have any sort of impact on their lives. What sort of teachable moment was this? What nugget of wisdom was he trying to share with these girls when he turned in that team for a perceived uniform violation? Not to mention when he reported the different uniforms to the officials, one of the girls that withdrew was a senior, so she missed her last chance to run in a state championship.

So coach, was it worth it?

I do not question why the coach pointed out this infraction. A coach's job is to do whatever they can to ensure that their team places as high as possible. As long as the coach stays within the rules, we should expect nothing less from coaches.

Pointing out possible infractions made by other teams, and working the officials is generally an acceptable strategy that is used by coaches at all levels. Coaches do this all the time in other high school sports. The officials in those sports have learned to deal with it, and they have the ability to penalize the coach (and the team of the coach) if the coach goes too far (technical fouls, penalties, ejection). I doubt that HS XC officials have this recourse and I doubt such rules exist in XC running, but they need to be added.

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You my curly headed idiot are part of the reason the sport is dying in this country.

The purpose of a coach is to prepare and educate kids and to have them enjoy the greatest experience. You seem to think that providing a shitty experience is educational. Not so. It sours attitudes that will rebound in years to come.

Racing at high school level is almost irrelevant, but if winning by causing the opposition girls spend the warm up period in tears, you are a true winner. I'd love to kick your a$s in the true spirit of educating you in the realities of you being a schpoop.

^^^This. Finally some common sense on lrc!

When a coach cannot let the race decide the winner (rather than his own off course antics) he should no longer coach.

cockyknowitall wrote:

Is this a uniform violation, based on how the rule is written? A team was turned in by an opposing coach for a "uniform violation."

Here is a link to the story:

http://co.milesplit.com/articles/138295-addendum-the-3a-start-line-controversy#.VE65tLzn1vk

Do you know what I find disturbing? I've read through this whole thread on letsrun.com and the whole thread on Colorado MileSplit:

On neither thread does anyone from Alamosa come on and say this was a really lame stunt to pull. And that bothers me. I know they have internet in Alamosa. They can't help but have seen the threads but nobody feels compelled to come forward and say this stunt doesn't represent their community and that they're ashamed of what happened. I could feel a whole lot better about this in a hurry if I saw something like that.

Makes me wonder if they aren't ashamed. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I'm not seeing the evidence that would tell me so.

it is a lame stunt to wear different uniforms.

this happened 3 times to my team in new york, each time we lost a key race for the same reason:

here's the thing they did: the uniforms appeared similar from the front . . .

BUT were different colors ( white v. red, or green v. yellow) ) in the back.

during the race you don't see the front of your competition, ever, only the back.

the teams were in violation but pulled off the stunt.

lost in close races, sad.

um, don't know quite how to tell you this, but if the uniforms were different in back that would have been pointed out by now. As it is, someone has already falsely said the uniforms had different imprints on front as a lame attempt to justify the fingering. That person got called on it in the thread and has gone strangely silent.

egun wrote:

during the race you don't see the front of your competition, ever, only the back.

.

... Unless you pass the competition, and then you can't see them at all. If you're lucky, you won't see them again until you cross the finish line.

Besides your own team, who isn't the competition? Hell, your teammates are the competition in the individual race. Just run hard.

egun wrote:

here's the thing they did: the uniforms appeared similar from the front . . .

BUT were different colors ( white v. red, or green v. yellow) ) in the back.

during the race you don't see the front of your competition, ever, only the back.

...

lost in close races, sad.

If you were deciding which people to pass based on the color of the back of their singlets, you might want to think of a different reason why you lost.

This is a tough situation. As a coach I would never turn in another team at that moment.

As a meet director, things are a bit different though. Just tonight at our region meet I notified all of the coaches ahead of time and at the coaches meeting 30min before the races that all runners need to be in the same uniform (NFHS and GA rules). One team had their runners show up in three different pairs of shorts and two kinds of tights after their coaches were informed. My team is running in this race but I am also the meet referee/race director. Telling the kids to fix it and get their uniforms in order is the right thing to do right? I did and I delayed the race 4 minutes. Guess what, the coaches didn't fix it. I had to go and ask every other coach if they were okay with the uniform violation or that team wouldn't field a full squad and would not have qualified for state.

Guess what, their girls team did the same thing just 30min later!

I will say that not one other coach complained but it was my duty as the meet official to enforce the rule.

It is ultimately the coach's fault.

I would be embarrassed to win by complaining about the difference about those 2 uniforms. They are 99% similar. A shame that 2 girls didn't get to compete - congratulations to the 2 girls who gave up there spots. The coach who filed the complaint is a petty, petty man who should be embarrassed. Wow!

This is not the same as Colorado. This situation the coaches should have been told, as they were, the fix the uniform problem. If they ran in improper uniforms they will be DQ'd That is life. The other coaches should not have been asked what they thought, the meet director and jury of appeals needed to make the decision. Looks like GA coaches are different from CO coaches.

The Colorado coach who "ratted" on the other team, though supposedly great, will get repaid in some way or form. Those that life by the sword will die by the sword. I wonder what his Supt. thinks of his win at all cost attitude. I am not sure I would want that attitude to pervade in my athletic department.

Interesting that NO Alamosa supporters have commented on the situation.

I think Salida is going to wait till next year to prove the point.

At the Regionals Salida scored 39 (1-2-9-10-17-18-19) with only one senior (18) while Alamosa was second scoring 60 (4-5-15-16-20) and one senior in fifth.

At the State meet the Salida girls that did not run all beat the fifth Alamosa girl in the Regionals. Does that mean they would have done the same at the Sate where Alamosa won 91 to Salida 95?

I guess for Salida it will be WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR. I do not think the Salida staff will have any trouble getting their team ready to run at the States.

VAcoach wrote:

I understand this (having a #1 state ranked team with our school name in big letters on the back, it has haunted us). But there are some issues with this. What about pulling a York? (purchasing unique school issued uniforms not worn throughout the season just to confuse opponents at states) What is to stop a team from issuing unique state singlets with another school's colors? If the uniform rule is intended to prevent a team from visual deception, then these other scenarios should equally be out of bounds (especially since it favors schools with more money).

[quote]Bring Back the 880 wrote:

Steve Martin brings up a good point regarding competitors being able to identify a rival team.

They would still all match and a good coach would know which ones to point out before the start of the race. There is no real advantage to using new ones beyond the psychological effect of having something new.

Most kids do not access milesplit. Coaches do, and a few parents. Even those who do access it would not comment on it for fear of retribution from the coach. They know his true character, and the rest of us are just finding it out. The only one from there that would comment would be him, and he is not of the character to do so.

I emailed Alamosa's AD. Feel free to do the same.

http://alamosa.k12.co.us/ahs/Activities.html

Do you know what I find disturbing? I've read through this whole thread and the whole thread on Colorado MileSplit. On neither thread does anyone from Alamosa come on and say this was a really lame stunt to pull. And that bothers me. Makes me wonder if they aren't ashamed. I hope I'm wrong about that, but I'm not seeing the evidence that would tell me so.

I suspect the silence is testament that they're ashamed. When you know you've messed up, it's easiest to lay in hiding and remain silent, rather than to fess up, let alone apologize. But this is ultimately the coach's responsibility and no one else's.

I'm sure some people associated with Alamosa high have seen the discussion on milesplit where things are more respectful and the comments tread lightly.

I doubt many of them read letsrun where the gloves come off.

First I think a simple warning from the Alamosa coach would have been sufficient. If they met at a qualifier or regional meet the Alamosa coach should have gone to the other dude and just said "hey coach I noticed your uniforms are off. Did you? You need to adjust them before someone calls you out at the state meet."

Folks are so quick to judge. Open some dialogue. Lack of class from the Alamosa guy but perfectly in his right.

Secondly a coach should know that his uniforms are off. It is his fault. It is also his athletes faults for not coordinating the effort. My grandkids are at a school and they have 10 different uniforms. Girls wear this, guys wear that, relays this, relays that. But at big meets the coach says wear the school issued. If they don't, they don't run. The kids always listen.

Almost everyone hates the uniform and jewelry rules but they are rules. You need to follow them until they are no longer rules. With that being said. Are we here for the kids or the coaches or the parents or the rules? We coach for the kids. Let them run under protest or something. Or how about you ask the kids at Alamosa what there opinion is.