KILIAN JORNET LOSES TO "D" CLASS AFRICAN

stater of facts wrote:

fact is ultra running is a relatively new thing which no really good runners have taken up yet.

FYI, ultra running has a long history. Look at the history of Comrades or London to Brighton. Back when there was much less emphasis on all sports professionals

I wish I could respond to all of these posts, but I will choose one...Are all of you in this room seriously telling me that throughout the course of all that Jornet has done at such a young age, that you have only been wishing for Kilian to fail? Furthermore, you take pride in spotlighting when he does?Makes one wonder.

moron wrote:

I would bet everything I own that Kilian could train the rest of his life and not touch 2:10.

I just cannot imagine saying that Kilian isn't a great runner.

And you need to understand that real runners have their best distances. To think that just because someone is good at the marathon they will excel at 50+ mile ultras is as stupid as saying that Kiprop is lucky Bolt doesn't run the mile. Totally ignorant and shows you know NOTHING about running at all.

That is the worst argument on the planet. That's not how running works. You can't extrapolate a sprinter to a distance runner. ALL ULTRARUNNERS ARE DISTANCE RUNNERS. Do you get that? The pool for ultra running comes from Marathon and below. PERIOD. The pool for distance running DOES NOT COME from sprinting.

A successful marathoner will be a successful ultra runner. Look, we always talk on here "well, if an x african were to race Kilian, he would win/lose."

Well, you know what, the one time an African lines up against Kilian, over his most technical of terrain like Limone (that has 24% grades and miles of power-walking), Kilian LOSES to Mamo. End of story.

I will let Renato Canova explain to you your stupidity on the Bolt/ Kiprop argument. He already tore someone like to shreds on another thread arguing the same stupidity with Michael Johnson and the 800m.

Eocl wrote:

Well, you know what, the one time an African lines up against Kilian, over his most technical of terrain like Limone (that has 24% grades and miles of power-walking), Kilian LOSES to Mamo. End of story.

This is the first time Killian has lined up against an African? And its the first time he has lost to anyone? No and no.

I'm glad he lines up for races rather than ducking people to burnish his win/loss record.

Dude, seriously...

You can't see that marathons are different than ultra events? For one, the trails can vary and be technical, which eliminates pure speed. Also, the is a matter of fueling during the race. You won't want to run a 50 miler on beans and energy gels.

You do know that Limone wasn't an ultra right? I mean, you do know that?

10k's are distance events. So are marathons. What chance do you give Galen Rupp, who is hot running 10k's this year, in a marathon? The best 10k runners are not the best marathoners, and the best ultrarunners will NOT be the best marathoners. Over 50K, maybe. 50+ miles? It becomes doubtful to say the least. The point with using Bolt and Kiprop is that you are basically saying just because someone is fast at a shorter even they are going to be fast at the longer events. Obviously this is not true. Did Farah win his marathon this year eventhough he seems unbeatable at 5K? No. Could Kimetto step on the track and break the 10k record? No. I could give you countless examples of people performing well at their distance who would be a failure when running up or down from that distance.

I think some guys are getting too caught up on the race distance. It's MUT (Mountain-Ultra-Trail Running) not just Ultras VS track/road. This could mean a vertical K off-trail up a mountain at 25% grade OR it could mean a smooth single track in CA over 50 miles, or it could be 100 miles in the mountains (which honestly probably has more in common with the Vertical K)

Within MUT Running there are very different disciplines and these take very different skill sets. You don't see one guy dominating all disciplines (yet) because they are so different and there are so many races to choose from (esp in Europe)

What is impressive about Mamu is that he did so well in a SkyRunning race (I don't care if it's an "ultra" or not) with real, steep technical descents...he can also run at least a 64min half on the roads (my guess is that PR could probably go down to 63-62min). That is some serious range and climbing ability!

It would be foolish to think that at a 50-100 mile "runnable" ultra (maybe not Hardrock) he would NOT do very well.

The fact of the matter is we have a very small sample size of these types of guys and there are just too many different events within MUT Running ...it's almost like having 3 different sports.

COURSE PROFILE (NOT SHEER DISTANCE) IS WHAT MATTERS. RUNNING ECONOMY OVER VARIABLE TERRAIN IS WHAT MATTERS.

like wow... wrote:

The best 10k runners are not the best marathoners, and the best ultrarunners will NOT be the best marathoners.

Talent really hasn't visited the ultra running ranks as much as the other distances and until that happens no one can really compare ultras to standard distance formats. The only reason I believe a Kilian ultra performance has chance of standing the test of time over others is because he has an oxygen uptake in the 90's. He may be the real deal and you can't really trust any ultra performance unless either Kilian or someone with proven speed and talent has trained and had a real crack at it. Gone are the days where being one with the trail and running for a long time and a marathon PR in the high 2 hour range was all you needed to be the best.

Okay, so Kilian Jornet has won World Championships this year, for... Ultrarunning 50+, Skyrunning and Vertical Kilometres... this is like if someone was 800,5000 and 21k world champ and we are saying that he is a big lie and that anyone that can run a 2:25 42K will beat him easily with some mountain training... YOU KNOW NOTHING

You calling someone out saying they know nothing is just pure stupidity being that you obviously know nothing yourself. Have you even raced a skyrace or a VK? Winning these events are nothing like having range to win 800 and 21k on road/track idiot.

VK is steep and technical, the Skyraces are steep and technical. Kilian does not do any races where he shows he can run fast on less technical terrain. He has no range my friend. Every athlete who can excel in skyrace can also excel at VK. 800m runners do not excel at half marathon jacka$$.

Also Kilian is not a "World Champion". The World Mountain Running Champs was won by a Ugandan this year by large margin. Skyracing is not a legit world title, there are only a handful of countries competing and no africans. He won against a mostly weak European field in most of his races. KUDOS big whoop. Lets see him step into mountain running or some races that aren't just technical terrain

being myself from Spain (where Kilian is not widely known outside running circles) i must say that i believe he is the best in what he does, as he makes it clear all year round in almost everything that he tries. I have seen him up and down and in difficult terrain i think he is unbeatable (for the time being).

Is it possible that he couldnt go under 2h10 in a flat marathon (even if he trained for it)?

Is it possible that a 2h04 marathoner could beat him in a mountain race above 50 miles (training for it)?

I think that no one knows for sure, the same that we cant know for sure what Gomez Noya or Brownlee (top thriatletes) could run in a 10k if they trained for it for one whole year.

What we do know is that both Gomez Noya and Brownlee are the best in triathlon (in their distance) and that Jornet is the best in mountain running. Apart from that we can imagine things all we want, but please, respectfully.

It is indeed possible that in more benign courses and not in altitude he can be more easily beaten, yes.

He just showed us he is not the best and until he runs a real championship like the World Mountain Running champs against real competitors he cannot be considered the best mountain runner. Maybe the best at technical ultra but not good enough to garner title as "best mountain runner"

Respectfully

Thank you, Sage, exactly my points that some of these guys don't understand. It's about MUT, period, and the course profiles these guys race.

right, you think he is not the best there is now? now that really shocks me, i thought that what we were discussing is that there could be someone out there much better than he (from what i understood, dozens of sub 2h8 Africans) outside the current mountain runners.

But OK, if not he, who is it then? (or who do you think it is).

Mamo, for beating him in this last race?

And lets see some more guys who are running road races step up and run more technical terrain.

The problem is you idiots think you know for sure that marathoners would excel at 100 mile races better than the guys currently doing it. Maybe they would, but it is not a given, and you ultra haters are acting like it is.

At the 2012 Olympic marathon trials, Max King ran a 2:14.36. In 2012, guess who beat Max King by 10 minutes in the Pikes Peak Marathon? Kilian did. And I would bet Kilian doesn't do much speed work and I think Max does. So you stupid idiots who claim he has no speed don't know what the hell you are talking about. He has good marathon potential.

now i am not so sure as you do in that last item. As you say above, "maybe he would, but it is not a given". He is a portent climbing and (more so) descending, but on flat... we are again especuating.

Caesaris Caesar, Deus Dei.

Let's see this bum step up and try something actually technical/difficult like Fitz Roy or Annapurna.

so now he has to actually climb and people want him to step down and run flat? No changing the minds of haters. Geez.