What year does 1:39.9 happen?

FSM wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

1'50+ does not take anything out of a 1'38 guy.

You're being misleading.

He was in that shape in 1967. The 800m race being discussed was in 1966. He was much better in 1967.

What is the evidence that Ryun was better over shorter distances in 1967 V. 1966?

Were his relay times better? Were his 800 times better? Etc.?

hmmmmmmm wrote:

FSM wrote:

You're being misleading.

He was in that shape in 1967. The 800m race being discussed was in 1966. He was much better in 1967.

What is the evidence that Ryun was better over shorter distances in 1967 V. 1966?

Were his relay times better? Were his 800 times better? Etc.?

There is no evidence that he could ever run anything approaching 1:40 in any year.

He ran a 1:44.3 on a synthetic track in 66.

Ventolin saying he was "so I'll" is laughable. If you're ill you don't run, simple as that. As for running a 1:51 heat hours before, so what? That is nothing more than a jog for someone who supposedly could run sub 1:40 ;)

He couldn't break 47.0 in several relays in 67, which means 47.7 for 400 open. If he was running 45 lows in relays on cinders then that would be a shred of evidence, but 47 is nothing.

The only evidence, if you can call it that, is Ventolin and his aliases constantly insisting that Ryun ran it in their wet dreams.

no

he had 45-flat synthetic track speed at still 18y

what does making up 20y on anchor tell your peabrain what his speed was ???

even moreso with a 3'55.8 mile in his legs on that quagmire

it is ridiculous to believe his speed was not at least = at 20y+

a semi-synthetic built for low upkeep NOT speed

where are the huge number of pbs behind him in that race ???

how come that track was only fast enough for him to run a 4'02 mile the next day ???

idiot

he felt obliged to run to support the fledgling USTFF

if it had been present day pro-game he wouda never have run

only an idiot coud believe he was in any shape to run let alone a wr !!!

utter drivel

anyone planning a wr on circuit tries not to run 1mm extra in preceding few days let alone an 880y coupla hours before

fool

how many times do you have to be told that he said he made little effort to run fast until late season when he decided he had to go for it alone as no help being offered & broke mile wr

in '67 he won 1st 2 relays with 47.0 & 48.0 & above words indicate he only did enough to win

he lost his last relay with 3rd in 47.0 for 3rd race of day & 4th in 2 days !

utter drivel

how many times does your peabrain need to be told :

at 18y, on a quagmire after running 3'55.8, which was probably a near 2s better performance than jazy's then wr if on dry dirt, he ran a 46.9y making up 20 yards on anchor

what on earth is that for a fully rested 400 on synthetic ???

moron

learn even basic analysis

Do we know his splits for that 1:51? Would it have been a less taxing workout for him if they were 60/51?

GoldenMiles wrote:

Reaching the limit? wrote:

Just a note to consider - it took over 30 years to go from 1:41.73 to 1:40.91

The voice of reason. :(. Still, Rudisha ran that 1:40 in a non-rabbitted race.

And Michael Johnson ran 43.13 for 400m in the same fashion. Rabbits are more about pacing. The whole drafting concept is vastly overblown.

My point is rabbits don't help much in shorter races because you are closer to max pace.

MarathonMind wrote:Do we know his splits for that 1:51? Would it have been a less taxing workout for him if they were 60/51?

it was a 1'50.9 for 2nd

ventolin^3 wrote:

Fundamentally wrote:There is no evidence that he could ever run anything approaching 1:40 in any year

no

he had 45-flat synthetic track speed at still 18y

what does making up 20y on anchor tell your peabrain what his speed was ???

Ventolin, was this before or after he slew the mighty dragon by strangling it with his bare hands?

hmmmmmmm wrote:

What is the evidence that Ryun was better over shorter distances in 1967 V. 1966?

Were his relay times better? Were his 800 times better? Etc.?

The evidence is this:

Did he believe he was an all round faster runner for 400 to the mile in '66 or '67 ?

drewr wrote:

Ventolin-dad said definitely 1967. He said, "It was an unbelievable year."

Jim said so himself, as relayed to us by his son Drew in this thread:

No, idiot.

He did not show anything approaching 45 synthetic speed ever.

He ran plenty of relays in 66 and 67 and never ran faster than a 46.9.

You were not there and cannot possibly offer as evidence that he didn't run all out in those races. You don't know this, it's what you want to believe.

Neither can you state with any certainty that his speed was better later in the season than earlier. Again, supposition and no evidence there.

Neither is there any conversion chart which gives time off for how ill you are. You cannot state how I'll he was. If you're that I'll you don't run. Simple.

We can only state with any certainty that he ran 46.9, and again there is no conversion that gives value for it being wet earlier in the day.

You seem to put stock on a 1.5% loss of time on dirt compared to synthetic.

That would mean 46.9 would be worth 46.2 on synthetic which is then worth 47.0 for an open race. Take off 0.3 for 400 and that gives him around 46.7 ability for 400 in an open race on synthetic. We also know nothing about how much drafting he got in that run nor the calibre of the opposition he chased. You just presume and want to believe they were 46 sec guys.

Your whole wacky theorising is based on supposition after supposition on top of fantasy.

He ran 46.9 for a relay on dirt, 1:44.3 for 800 converted from an 880yd time on synthetic. It states 'synthetic' in the IAAF records book, there isn't an asterix next to the word 'synthetic' saying it was really semi synthetic and therefore not as good as normal synthetic and the same as dirt, you idiot.

And his mile time the next day on the same track has no baring whatsoever on the speed of the track. It was obviously a slower kicker's race.

End of the day, there are dozens of runners with better 400/800 times and or credentials than Ryun. It doesn't mean they were capable of sub 1:40 just as it certainly doesn't even suggest Ryun was capable of approaching such levels.

Rockets red glare wrote:

GoldenMiles wrote:

The voice of reason. :(. Still, Rudisha ran that 1:40 in a non-rabbitted race.

And Michael Johnson ran 43.13 for 400m in the same fashion. Rabbits are more about pacing. The whole drafting concept is vastly overblown.

Terrible example. ALL 400 meters are without rabbits so he was not competing against records that are set with rabbits.

The draft effect actually gets much greater with increased speed. In the marathon it's overrated, in the 800, not sure.

That is not evidence, it's an opinion. There is a bit difference.

Ryun probably did have better 400 potential in 67, but better than a 46.9 relay split, which is worth around 47.7 in an open, does not mean 45 sec on synthetic. That is a jump of nearly 3 secs in ability.

What he actually ran is the most important piece of evidence and he managed 46.9 for a relay in 66 and 47.0 in 67, despite running several legs that year. Likewise over 800m, Ryun never approached 1:44.3 in 67.

Yes, that doesn't mean he couldn't run the distance faster, but it certainly cannot be used to propose nonsense of him being capable of 1:39.

It verges on the ridiculous that anyone can take this man's fantasies seriously.

Fundamentally wrote:

That is not evidence, it's an opinion. There is a bit difference.

Ryun probably did have better 400 potential in 67, but better than a 46.9 relay split, which is worth around 47.7 in an open, does not mean 45 sec on synthetic. That is a jump of nearly 3 secs in ability.

What he actually ran is the most important piece of evidence and he managed 46.9 for a relay in 66 and 47.0 in 67, despite running several legs that year. Likewise over 800m, Ryun never approached 1:44.3 in 67.

Yes, that doesn't mean he couldn't run the distance faster, but it certainly cannot be used to propose nonsense of him being capable of 1:39.

It verges on the ridiculous that anyone can take this man's fantasies seriously.

What the eff are you talking about

Jim MF Ryun said he was an all around faster athlete at every distance in 1967

End of discussion

I'll take the word of the man himself over some message board poster

Are you purposely obtuse?

You clearly have comprehension problems. Faster than a 46.9 relay leg does not mean 45 flat open ability. Did J Ryun say that he was a 45 flat, 1:39 man? No.

If you can't see the huge gulf between the 2 then you have nothing of relevance to offer.

moron

how dumb are you ???

idiot

he ran 3'55.8 when 3/12+ later he ran 3'51.3 on dry dirt

no one improves 4.5s in a mile in 3/12+

he was almost certainly close to 3'51+ when running 3'55.8

therefore 1s/lap handicap for quagmire/dry dirt

-> 46.9 =

45.9 effort for dry dirt with near 2s mile wr in his legs

learn analysis moron

idiot

only that kansas one at 18y is quoted at 20 yards behind & forced to run fast

in '67 he says he cruised his races until mile wr

moron

"In his recent races Ryun had been relaxing behind the leaders, surging to the front whenever he pleased and winning in times dictated by the early pacemakers. "I realized," he said, "that I wouldn't set any records doing that, because no one was going to knock himself out setting a record pace. So I decided to push myself."

moron

what are you drivelling ???

his 46.9y on quagmire was at 18y in '66-early

his unquestioned peak was '67-late

idiot

NEXT

season

idiot

see interview

he woud never have run final if pro-era

he did & set wr !!!

moron

lj runway unfit to sprint on & imported conveyor belt

3'55.8 then 3'51.3 later

find a brain idiot

it was a 45-high 440y split after a 3'51+ effort on dry dirt at 18y

no

epstein said biomechanists said 1.5% for 100% likely pristine dry dirt

you have been told this 1/2 + dozen times

how many more times does your peabrain need telling ???

drivel

try again with 2s/lap for quagmire

idiot

he made up 20 yards on anchor to win

teams put best runner on anchor

Ryun made up 20y on best anchors at big college meet

moron

no

i assume they were at best

47.0

on '70s-synthetic guys

what does that make Ryun who made up 20 yards on them ???

no

moron

i offer analysis off hard facts

you offer drivel

on a quagmire unfit to lj on

with a 3'55.8 in his legs

no

semi-synthetic

where were all huge pbs behind him ???

utter moron

hymans wasn't there

who from iaaf, who were worthless back then was there ???

total moron

his 800wr was "slow kicker's race" after prelim

idiot

why run 4'02 on this synthetic when he ran 3'51 soon on dirt ???

moron

not on dirt

learn 1.5% for pristine dirt

moron

you are dumbest guy who's posted here

get a brain idiot

45-flat speed at worst at peak when crushing 1500

that is

~ 1'39.9

Fundamentally wrote:

FSM wrote:

What the eff are you talking about

Jim MF Ryun said he was an all around faster athlete at every distance in 1967

End of discussion

I'll take the word of the man himself over some message board poster

Are you purposely obtuse?

You clearly have comprehension problems. Faster than a 46.9 relay leg does not mean 45 flat open ability. Did J Ryun say that he was a 45 flat, 1:39 man? No.

If you can't see the huge gulf between the 2 then you have nothing of relevance to offer.

I was discussing with another person if Jim was faster at every distance in 1967 as compared to 1966.

Jim answered the question directly saying he was better in every way in 1967.

Try to keep up.

You are really pissed tonight, ventolin.

You might want to dry out for a few days.

I worry about you when you are that worked up.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

You are really pissed tonight, ventolin.

You might want to dry out for a few days.

I worry about you when you are that worked up.

He does have a point, though.

It's not as if Jim Ryun's entire 800 reputation is built on ONE race which was probably around 1:44.45 (fully automatic).

Look at the Olympic teams he made over 800 meters, the Olympic finals he made, the Olympic gold medals he won, the big 800s he won against top-flight competition, etc.

He's certainly not a hack 800 runner like miler Steve Ovett, who only made three Olympic 800 finals and only won one Olympic 800 championship.

Fundamentally wrote:Are you purposely obtuse?

are you purposely stoopid ???

You clearly have comprehension problems

better than dumb

Faster than a 46.9 relay leg does not mean 45 flat open ability

learn fool

3'55.8 on quagmire

3'51.3 on dry dirt soon after

therefore a 46.9 440y likely in ballpark of 45.9 440y on dry dirt

that with fatigue of a near intrinsic 2s wr in the mile earlier in day & still 18y !!!

that is 45-flat open on synthetic when fully rested

Did J Ryun say that he was a 45 flat, 1:39 man?

fool

he has probably never even thought about it

If you can't see the huge gulf between the 2 then you have nothing of relevance to offer

drivel

learn even cursory analysis

you offer nothing

Yes, as I thought. Obtuse and with comprehension problems.