African Age Cheating

So back to Brimin Kipruto getting his birth certificate in 2001 with his birthday from 1985, that means he was 15 years old according to the birth certificate and passport then. So if he was truly mid 20s or older then since that's what y'all are trying to say, he would be about 40 or so now. Do you know that he still runs under 8:10 steeple chase? So give some of these guys credit for running super fast times, faster than American National records in their 40s per se.

[/quote] I guess you could also investigate Faith Kipyegon, but her winning time in at World Youth in 2012 was nothing special, and her progression seems basically consistent with her reported age.[/quote]

Her progression from: 4:03 to 3:56 in a year is consistent with her age? That's a pretty massive progression for a woman of any age, much less for an 18-19 year old.

BUrgess@221, I would predict Brimin to be around 30-35. He definitely isn't ~28 and I'd be hard to believe he's much older than 35

NJ Possible wrote:

trackcoach wrote:

However, it would not look like a freak show as in a junior athlete going out in the 800m in 48 seconds, world (senior) record pace and still manage to win.

Is this video on youtube or anywhere? I can't find it.

Actually it was world youth, not juniors. This kid was listed as 16 years old and his opening 400m was clocked at 48.6 and he hung on to win. Some of the kids who hung way off the pace came back on him, but he still hung on for the win. This is the same man who ran the anchor leg on Kenya's 4x8 at the world Relays Championship this year. Does anyone really think Kenya would put a 17 year old on their World Relays anchor leg in a global championship with $50,000 dollars on the line. I have looked at a clear picture of him and he looks to be in his mid-20s. Also, I am about 95% sure this is the same man who ran the open 400m for Kenya in the 2012 World Juniors in Barcelona, but under a different name and age. He was probably in his early 20s back in 2012, he is probably about 24-25 right now and I would not be surprised to see him run World Juniors again this year. - See video below:

His resume:

2012 World Juniors

2013 World Youth

2014 World Relays

2014 World Juniors

How can anyone think this is fair and btw, I have many similar examples of age cheating.

justsayinnn wrote:

I guess you could also investigate Faith Kipyegon, but her winning time in at World Youth in 2012 was nothing special, and her progression seems basically consistent with her reported age.[/quote]

Her progression from: 4:03 to 3:56 in a year is consistent with her age? That's a pretty massive progression for a woman of any age, much less for an 18-19 year old.[/quote]

As you point out, the jump for 4:03 to 3:56 in a single year is massive. I would say it's less shocking for someone going from 18 to 19 than it would e for someone going from, say, 21 to 22. Could it be suspicious in and of itself? Sure, just don't see it as evidence of age cheating.

You can't claim age cheating.

Do you really think these kids and families purposely do not keep records when their child is born? Do you think the day these kids are born into a family with a yearly income of $1,000 that they say, "I am going to lie about your birth date so you can be a professional runner in 20 years."

If Americans were beating Africans no one would give a sh%t about the age of the Africans.More straw grasping by Americans who just cannot for the life of them understand why poverty stricken East African nations can destroy them in their blessed track & field....

Yutre wrote:

fan of US distance running wrote:

And how does this disprove what I said?

It shows that some US birth certificates are not accurate.

No it doesn't

sbeefyk1 wrote:

You can't claim age cheating.

Do you really think these kids and families purposely do not keep records when their child is born? Do you think the day these kids are born into a family with a yearly income of $1,000 that they say, "I am going to lie about your birth date so you can be a professional runner in 20 years."

Competing with a falsified age is age cheating. The intent is irrelevant.

"They" are going to win, like at the WC 1500 in 2011 ?No white gal could win that!

Logic? You lack it wrote:

Have you considered that maybe Mary Cain just sucks, when actually competing with world class athletes her age? I mean it's not really gonna get different when she gets older. They still win regardless of age. Might as well just get used to losing.

The POINT here is that there is an "aged based championship". Therefore to be legal one must prove that they are eligible. That means a real/valid birth certificate. If one wasn't issued by a reliable government; too bad, so sad. Get your act together government and we'll let you back in.

Just like the NCAA championship where one must be a college student AND eligible; everyone should play by the same rules. It isn't sour grapes to ask that this is a rule to be followed. And it also does not mean that they can't compete in open championships or meets... they can.

It is interesting that you mentioned Faith, who I think won World Youth 1500 in 2011 as opposed to 2012. In that race she looked like she was on a training run and pulled away from the field as relaxed as any runner I have seen. She looked really young and appeared to only be about 5 feet tall back then. When I saw her at world cross 2 years later, she appeared to have grown a couple of inches, which suggest she is perhaps very young. However, I still don't understand why at supposedly age 16, Faith did not compete in the school championships. I know of 2 cases where athletes where told not not to compete in the school champs because it might affect their eligibility youth and junior competitions and earnings potential. Btw, I am less concerned about the overage girls than the boys because for cultural reasons you are less likely to see a young girl training in a pro group than a young boy.

Assuming you are truly an agent, your writing style suggest to me that you are one or two people. In which case you understand what I am writing about more than I do and why don't you speak up about it. I understand the economic realities of Africa and the games you have to play with meet promoters, but when it comes to global championships, this is where you should draw the lines. It simply isn't fair to have kids competing against adult athletes. And, I know there is a problem with documenting some athletes DOB, even in cases where you have school records an athlete can be a few year older than their papers. But, but in cases where an old looking athlete, an athlete who has competed the military or prison championships, has 3 kids, a residing hair line and has been training in a pro training group for several years - why not alert KAA and/or the IAAF that this athlete probably should not be competing in global youth and junior competition?

Right now, world youth and juniors records are basically a scam, I don't think any male or female record over 400m is legitimate and that's a shame.

Umm....wut

How about addressing the points raised.

Track needs to do the same thing as FIFA has done with Jr. Soccer. The sport would have to change the age limit to 18, but who cares? 90% of the current entrants from most African countries would be eliminated, along with cheats from around the rest of the world. Soccer had become pathetic until the MRI "wrist test" was implemented. Track is just as silly, with Ethiopians and Kenyans in their mid 20's racing as youths (ages 15 - 17) in international Youth meets, never mind the hilarious scenes we've all come to enjoy at the Jr. Champs, with crabby looking 30 year olds (one guy who forgot to remove a wedding ring was a real treat - this happened in soccer all the time) racing high school kids from the US, and true juniors from Japan, Jamaica, Norway...everywhere but Africa.

Lucas wrote:

If Americans were beating Africans no one would give a sh%t about the age of the Africans.

More straw grasping by Americans who just cannot for the life of them understand why poverty stricken East African nations can destroy them in their blessed track & field....

More PC bunk by a brainwashed self-hater or another hasbara operative working hard to try and ruin the confidence of certain folks in all areas. Because you're all so tolerant. Not. Hypocrites. Laughable hypocrites.

I can't believe that people are serious in thinking that there isn't widespread age cheating among the African runners. There's obviously a huge incentive for them to claim they are younger than they really are so of course people are going to do it. Would anyone really be shocked if every African was 2 years older (at the minimum) than they said they were?

Look at professional baseball - no one really has any clue on the birthdays of the non-American players. Pretty much everyone assumes that they are older than they claim but there is no good way to verify it so it's basically just ignored.

So do you think Haile Gebre is like 65 now since when he won the world junior in late 80s/early 90s time frame, the complaints from America was the same thinking he was on his 30s. So most of these Africans never age or what? Kipchoge, Ezekiel, bekele and all the big names are still around when our athletes in this nation come and go just because they pay attention to your crap and get psychologically affected. True victims!

Saying that Brimin is about 35, that puts him slightly older than our former steeple national record holder Lincoln, right? How long ago has Lincoln retired or has never run close to his PR when his kenyan again mate or someone older than him is still running faster than our current national record? So the question again is that something has to be happening in Africa that these guys don't age?

Author: Di coach

Subject: RE: African Age Cheating

Message:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shawn H wrote:

Hey, I already lapped you. It was legit, so it wasn't "cheating" per se. But was it fair? There's cheating, and then there's cheating.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You haven't even gotten off the starting line yet. You may not think it is fair, but it is not cheating any more than 19 year olds competing against 13 year olds in high school.

___________________________________________________________

This must be Joseph(at) Walker of Louisville (South Alabama, Alabama) . Made his name with 28 year old Kenyans