WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CIF GIRLS 1600 FINAL????

The race was reminiscent of 2008 Big 10 Indoor Track Championships 600 meter race with Heather (Dorniden) Kampf fall in the final 200 meters and getting up to finish 2nd.

Video and recap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUn2TqBMuO0#t=321

Sarah Robinson CIF state Champion. Collins and Maxwell now know how Mary Decker Felt in the Olympics. Part of the sport! Shit Happens. How about Edison getting a dq in the 4x1 after winning in 41.09 The #3 runner went out of his lane cheering for his anchor runner 50 yards after the pass was made in the zone. Now that's bullshit!

Robinson flew past Collins then, from several yards ahead, reached her trailing foot backwards and wrapped it quickly behind Collins, kicked her in the butt while knocking her forward, and continued on in lane two as though nothing had happened. This was especially deceptive because she remained in lane two and several yards ahead of Collins the whole time.

Folks,

For what it's worth, I spoke with Sarah and she is "almost positive" (her words) that she had no contact with Collins prior to the fall. She feels bad about what happened and even asked me what I think they all would have run time-wise if they were able to push each other to the finish. Honestly, I have no idea, but I wish we could have seen it.

All of this message board discussion is fine (that's what the boards are for) with one exception: the poor sportsmanship of Doug Soles.

As a HS coach, you have an appeal process to follow. Whatever happens, that's it. If the process doesn't go your way, you offer your congratulations. And if you can't do that, at least have the sense to stuff it.

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Luis Tiant wrote:

All of this message board discussion is fine (that's what the boards are for) with one exception: the poor sportsmanship of Doug Soles.

As a HS coach, you have an appeal process to follow. Whatever happens, that's it. If the process doesn't go your way, you offer your congratulations. And if you can't do that, at least have the sense to stuff it.

Luis Tiant wrote:

All of this message board discussion is fine (that's what the boards are for) with one exception: the poor sportsmanship of Doug Soles.

As a HS coach, you have an appeal process to follow. Whatever happens, that's it. If the process doesn't go your way, you offer your congratulations. And if you can't do that, at least have the sense to stuff it.

I really hope that it's not actually the great oaks coach posting on this board -- I know that coaches do post here, but the comments made by the poster claiming to be the coach were completely inappropriate given that the appeals process regarding disqualifications/rulings had already taken place and resulted in the no changes being made to the results.

I mean, I get competitiveness but as a high school athlete (and personal friend with multiple girls competing in the 16 and 32 that day) I'm kind of disgusted that a coach would try and blatantly blame an athlete of another school on a public message board after due process had been taken to handle the situation as best possible.

hi ernie!

Agreed. It was a Salazarian display of over involvement and hypercompetitiveness. Coach Soles's role should have been to pat his runner on the back, congratulate her on a great effort, and perhaps tell her that he thinks she would have won.

Instead he appears to be obsessed with his Gold Medal count.

ego coaching wrote:

Agreed. It was a Salazarian display of over involvement and hypercompetitiveness. Coach Soles's role should have been to pat his runner on the back, congratulate her on a great effort, and perhaps tell her that he thinks she would have won.

Instead he appears to be obsessed with his Gold Medal count.

By rule,there is no appeal of a "non-call" plain and simple. There has to be an infraction called to institute an appeal and then the appeal cannot be on a judgement decision by an official.

Far too many people are ignorant of basic rules.

At the meet the Great Oak coach was standing at about the 150 mark. When the fall happened he flipped out, about tipped the fence over and exclaimed that a state championship was stolen from them.

Reality is Maxwell took it out like that because she can. Because she has all year. Because you want to make your opponents hurt as bad as possible. Collins was dropped and then gave all she had to fight back. Her body was in such a state of fatigue it failed. That's why you take it out.

It was poor taste of coach. But he was upset and standing up for his athlete so I get it. The biggest surprise to me was no flag. At least discuss it. If anything Collins should have been DQ. If you impeded another runner, even due to fatigue you're done.

I have to say, the dumbest thing I've heard is the comment blaming Maxwell for not picking up the pace. She's in the lead. She doesn't have to. If she wants to hold you off making you run in Lane 2 before throwing down a kick that is her prerogative.

The lack of common sense and idiotic rants on this thread are amazing.

Are you kidding, no flag! Five days later and video galore and no one can agree on what happened and you expect an official to sort this thing out in real time. What planet are you from? The "no call" was the only call!

Collins was dropped and then gave all she had to fight back. Her body was in such a state of fatigue it failed. That's why you take it out.

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Nope.

Robinson had her left foot in lane 1 and the other in lane 2, crowding info Destiny. Destiny's right foot hits Robinson's left thigh causing her right leg to hit her left leg.

This is not a reason for a DQ, but certainly Destiny did not fall completely on her own.

I'm not saying the decision of "no call" is wrong or that I'm shocked that in "real time" officials don't know what happened. I'm fine with that. But there was contact, at the very least from Collins to Maxwell. When contact is made impeding the progress of another runner a flag should be raised. And then talk about it.

Is that wrong to say?

Collins was boxed in and at the very least tried to squeeze through without a clear stride length or "out." Pretty typical of a high school runner to panic rather than be patient and wait for things to open up. Is there rule about being on the rail and when you can move out if a runner is beside you? Makes sense that if you need a stride length to cut in you need one to make a move to the outside.

You only raise a flag if you are going call an infraction on an individual(s), not just to begin a discussion group. Officials are instructed to make individual decisions, not by group or by committee when determining whether a call should be made and who is potentially at fault. This situation is an excellent example of the wisdom of a "no call". Yes, something obviously happened between Robinson and Collins, but this point 5 days later it is only conjecture as what really took place. What would a flag have accomplished that was positive?

DedicatedRunner wrote:

Robinson had her left foot in lane 1 and the other in lane 2, crowding info Destiny. Destiny's right foot hits Robinson's left thigh causing her right leg to hit her left leg.

That is a crazy explanation.

DedicatedRunner wrote:

Robinson had her left foot in lane 1 and the other in lane 2, crowding info Destiny. Destiny's right foot hits Robinson's left thigh causing her right leg to hit her left leg.

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J.R. wrote:

That is a crazy explanation.

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What's crazy about that explanation? I understood what DedicatedRunner stated, I saw it the same way.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

J. R.-'m not sure that you're able to translate his words into a visual image.

With all due respect to Hal, A no call is a bad call. There is no way that I can believe that the official saw nothing... He had to make a split second decision and decided to not raise the flag... but, there is no way in a split second he could decide that the contact was not an infraction! So the right call should have been to raise the flag and consult with other officials about what he saw and what he thought it was that he saw. To do nothing when everyone can agree 5 days later that something happen is wrong.

What’s wrong with the official getting some help to make the right call? My 800m runner was tripped at CIF prelims and failed to advance despite having one of the top marks coming in… The official was standing right there and I believe raised the flag, I asked him what he saw and he said he decided that no infraction occurred and that it was incidental contact which I agreed with. Too many guys bunched together which caused the contact. My point is he saw something but after a few minutes to decide what he saw he decided that no infraction occurred. The coach near me whose athlete was also taken down (by my athlete) didn’t see it that way initially and I believe filed a protest and was very upset (as I was) with what happen so I can understand Coach Soles reaction. My point is that the flag came up because there was contact… that contact was later viewed as a no infraction after he had a moment to process what he had just seen!

My take on what happen… First of all, I wasn’t there (unfortunately) but I was watching live on the internet and was talking to a buddy on the phone during the race. We both saw the same thing at the same moment. Coach Soles version matches what I saw and later reviewed on the slow motion video; Collins moved up and Robinson fell back. We both actually said, “Look, Destiny is making her move” followed by, “wait he comes Robinson”. Robinson and Collins were too close together and contact happen which took out Maxwell. Now, whose fault was that? In a spilt second decision if I was the official I would not be able to make that call, but I would have raised the flag because I saw contact!!!

After reviewing it over and over hoping to see the shooter on the grassy knoll my take is Collins did in fact trip because Robinson was too close. Collins is ahead of her so she doesn’t have to look for her to pass because she’s not trying to pass her. Robinson is moving up but is too close forcing the contact… Now would that be an infraction? I think that should have been answered by a meet committee!! What constitute contact? Do you then lower the flag and make it a “no call”? One thing is clear; Maxwell was the loser in all this! She did nothing wrong and paid the biggest price! Many posters say Collins should have been DQ’d… Sorry, I don’t see that. In my opinion, she did nothing wrong either. She is ahead of Robinson and because of that does not have to look back and see what Robinson is doing. If anyone should have been DQ’d, it should have been Robinson. She should have moved out to pass. Please don’t show me a photo on mile split of her in lane 2… If you or using that as your smoking gun then you are just as bad as the Warren Commission! Collins and Robinson had little to no space between them!

Now, I’m just not sold on whether the contact warranted a DQ or not. So I guess in the end, a “no call” was the best call even though I don’t agree with that philosophy!