webbfan#6million wrote:
If he really wants to get back on top of the running world, he should head towards the top of the actual world. Send him to Everest base camp for 60 days and he'll be able to lose that 5-8 pounds of muscle that is killing him at the international level.
Heavier guys have run faster than Webb so 5-8 lbs has nothing to do with it
whymustIcry wrote:
Also...Julia Webb makes Mrs. Goucher her beeyatch again:
4 266 JULIA WEBB F 30 BEAVERTON OR 00:21:43.9 00:05:49 BACNIKE 4 Y 4 4 4 of 63 F 30-39 3 of 23
5 349 KARA GOUCHER F 35 PORTLAND OR 00:21:59.4 00:05:53 BACNIKE 5 Y 5 5 5 of 63 F 30-39 4 of 23
Is Goucher done?
The guy who finished second was actually a pretty good runner last year. Ran for FSU was top 30 at Nationals and ran 28:50 early in the year at Stanford.
Was anyone there? How was his leg speed velocity?
Phoebe Caulfield wrote:
I'm back boys!
http://imgrain.herokuapp.com/?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.letsrun.com%2Fforum%2Fforum.php%3Fboard%3D1&pic=http%3A%2F%2Fstoneandsteel.smugmug.com%2FRunning%2F2013-Stumptown-Cross-4-Pier%2Fi-V2Cmczr%2F0%2FM%2F2011-11-09-pier-park-2006-M.jpg
Looks like Steve Ovett
Who cares. Michael Jordan dunked a basketball at age 50. I guess "he's back" too. LOL @ emotional fanboys.
decent wrote:
The guy who finished second was actually a pretty good runner last year. Ran for FSU was top 30 at Nationals and ran 28:50 early in the year at Stanford.
That's true. And Welling in third also has respectable PRs.
However, in looking for reference points, the pertinent rule of thumb is that people can run below their ability but they can't run above it.
The runners in fourth and fifth are basically 15 flat 5000m guys. They might dip under by a few seconds. Webb in 13:40 shape should beat these guys by 1:20 even at 5K. So if he finishes 1:20 ahead of them at 8K, it doesn't demonstrate anything significant about his fitness.
Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
So....you want to him switch coaches again?
(he shoulda stayed with Al)
Hindsight 20/20, t-rex. It certainly looks that way now after 3 sub-par years and a bunch of other success under Salazar, but it wasn't that obvious in 2010...
Hardloper wrote:
Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:So....you want to him switch coaches again?
(he shoulda stayed with Al)
Hindsight 20/20, t-rex. It certainly looks that way now after 3 sub-par years and a bunch of other success under Salazar, but it wasn't that obvious in 2010...
Somewhat true, but he did pretty well under Al, did beat Rupp in that road 5k (ok, one race), had a chance to train with best 5k runner in the world (farah), one of the best 5k/10k guys (Rupp), and guys like Centro.....so....it seemed very strange AT THE TIME (not hindsight) to leave go to back home, once again, and to another new coach, again, just to train with Andrews. His group and coach now are strong, but the move from Salazar seemed typical Webb back then (emotional, not well thought out)
ksk wrote:
Heavier guys have run faster than Webb so 5-8 lbs has nothing to do with it
5'9" 146lbs makes him an outlier. He has said as much that the extra 5lbs of muscle just kills him, and he's right.
People love to point at Solinsky, who is 6'1" and listed at 160lbs. However, Solinsky scaled 3-dimensionally down to 5'9" would be 135lbs, which is right in line with a reasonable weight at that height.
Webb's 146lbs at 6'1" scaled to 172lbs.
He's too big. He says he wants to move up in distance, but at his weight the only chance he has is to move down to the 800. Of course he won't do that. Nor is he likely to lose the weight he needs to. He's pounding his head against a wall.
If he loses 3kgs his 13:37 turns into a 13:08 and he's back in the hunt.
Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
Somewhat true, but he did pretty well under Al, did beat Rupp in that road 5k (ok, one race), had a chance to train with best 5k runner in the world (farah), one of the best 5k/10k guys (Rupp), and guys like Centro.....so....it seemed very strange AT THE TIME (not hindsight) to leave go to back home, once again, and to another new coach, again, just to train with Andrews. His group and coach now are strong, but the move from Salazar seemed typical Webb back then (emotional, not well thought out)
Yeah but look at it in the context of 2010... After an incredible 2007 season, he was out with an injury in late 2008, and 2009-10 was a big comeback but nowhere near 2007. Meanwhile Rupp was still known as a good 10k runner with no speed to compete internationally, Ritz was just starting a long injury slump himself, Kara Goucher was on baby break, and Farah didn't join the group til early 2011. So AlSal did not have a very good reputation.
1. Solinsky on his weight: "Well, I guess I don't know what the numbers are that are out there for view, but I am, to be exact, 6' 3/4'' and I weigh anywhere between 164-166. I have lost a lot of the excess fat, and replaced it with well-proportioned muscle. I credit my wife Amy's cooking, along with Pascal Dobert's core sessions, for this great transformation."
Solinsky made 26:59 look like a walk in the park. Alan Webb should start on his iron diet again, drink beer now and then and do more lifting, gain some muscle and look like the man he was in 2007. Then he will run 12:53.
coach dog wrote:
1. Solinsky on his weight: "Well, I guess I don't know what the numbers are that are out there for view, but I am, to be exact, 6' 3/4'' and I weigh anywhere between 164-166. I have lost a lot of the excess fat, and replaced it with well-proportioned muscle. I credit my wife Amy's cooking, along with Pascal Dobert's core sessions, for this great transformation."
Solinsky made 26:59 look like a walk in the park. Alan Webb should start on his iron diet again, drink beer now and then and do more lifting, gain some muscle and look like the man he was in 2007. Then he will run 12:53.
OK, fair enough, 6' 3/4" at 165 pounds. We all agree the guy looks like a damn tank, right? I don't care how he made 26:59 look like, it will likely end up being the most noteworthy performance of his career. Convert his body in 3D down to 5'8.75" and he'd weigh 139. So 139 pounds would be the absolute max for Webb to weigh. Max, as in, less would be better if he wants to run 5000 or longer.
At the time, and it still might hold true, Solinsky was the tallest guy to break 27 flat and the first guy over 141 pounds to do it. He's a major outlier.
Further, he was only a major outlier for about 4-5 months of his entire life, which is a totally different discussion. Before and after that magical and somewhat mysterious period where he was 3-4 % stronger than he'd ever been or has been since, he's been at the pointy end of the performance:weight curve.
For reference, if you take 3-4% of Solinsky's muscle mass away, bringing him down to about 158, he's the equivalent of a guy at 5'8.75" and 133-134 pounds. Solinsky needs to lose weight as well.
It's well within possibility that Webb can step on a track and run a great race.
Ideally, he runs a series of races pointing towards improvement over 1500 or 5000 (why not 1500? It's his best event.)
He times a peak for late June to mid August and returns to world class running.
Webb still has the tools to do this. He has to undergo the formality of actually executing such a season.
webbfan#6million wrote:
coach dog wrote:1. Solinsky on his weight: "Well, I guess I don't know what the numbers are that are out there for view, but I am, to be exact, 6' 3/4'' and I weigh anywhere between 164-166. I have lost a lot of the excess fat, and replaced it with well-proportioned muscle. I credit my wife Amy's cooking, along with Pascal Dobert's core sessions, for this great transformation."
Solinsky made 26:59 look like a walk in the park. Alan Webb should start on his iron diet again, drink beer now and then and do more lifting, gain some muscle and look like the man he was in 2007. Then he will run 12:53.
OK, fair enough, 6' 3/4" at 165 pounds. We all agree the guy looks like a damn tank, right? I don't care how he made 26:59 look like, it will likely end up being the most noteworthy performance of his career. Convert his body in 3D down to 5'8.75" and he'd weigh 139. So 139 pounds would be the absolute max for Webb to weigh. Max, as in, less would be better if he wants to run 5000 or longer.
At the time, and it still might hold true, Solinsky was the tallest guy to break 27 flat and the first guy over 141 pounds to do it. He's a major outlier.
Further, he was only a major outlier for about 4-5 months of his entire life, which is a totally different discussion. Before and after that magical and somewhat mysterious period where he was 3-4 % stronger than he'd ever been or has been since, he's been at the pointy end of the performance:weight curve.
For reference, if you take 3-4% of Solinsky's muscle mass away, bringing him down to about 158, he's the equivalent of a guy at 5'8.75" and 133-134 pounds. Solinsky needs to lose weight as well.
Yeah, by your logic if Solinsky lost 10 pounds he'd break the 10000m world record. If you had even the vaguest knowledge of the sport you would know that weight loss doesn't always work like that.
Some people run better at a heavier weight than their 'absolute minimum'. End of story.
Herbert Johnson wrote:
Yeah, by your logic if Solinsky lost 10 pounds he'd break the 10000m world record. If you had even the vaguest knowledge of the sport you would know that weight loss doesn't always work like that.
Some people run better at a heavier weight than their 'absolute minimum'. End of story.
I understand it may come across like that, but that's not my intent, nor is that quite my logic.
If things are going well and have been for a long while, I wouldn't recommend changing a thing. Like Priscah Jeptoo for instance, she looks a bit crazy with her right side being a bit sloppy, but it's working.
If thing are not going well and haven't been for a long while, then it's probably time to take a look at your competitors and see if anything stands out that they are doing differently.
In Solinsky and Webb's case, what the competitors are doing differently is carrying a lot less muscle. At this point in their careers they are going to have to take a risk. Losing weight is absolutely a risk. It sucks and it can backfire. Repeating the same thing that hasn't been working is even suckier and somewhat insane.
Webb could 100% make the US cross team for the world XC champs. Top 20 world XC finish and fuels his fire!
World XC would help get him back into the international running world, provide a new challenge where time doesn't matter, and wets his appetite for destruction. Go Alan!!!!
From what I noticed, Webb has always ran well with a little extra muscle mass. He has gone through periods of looking really thin and runs his worst, basically because he has no pop in his stride.
As for the race, this is a very good step. He has been running ok times but has not been competitive at all and seems to get beat by people that shouldn't be even close.
I predict a sub 4 and an indoor 3k PR this winter if he runs it.
webbfan#6million wrote:
People love to point at Solinsky, who is 6'1" and listed at 160lbs. However, Solinsky scaled 3-dimensionally down to 5'9" would be 135lbs, which is right in line with a reasonable weight at that height.
Webb's 146lbs at 6'1" scaled to 172lbs.
No. It does not matter how tall you are when talking about weight. It only matters how much you weigh. Gravity doesn't change because you're taller. Everything you're saying is incorrect.
It looks like Peir Park course was about 15seconds per mile slower than the Fernhill Park course that German Fernandez ran on October 26.
Does anyone think it is a coincidence that German and Alan both ran 5min mile pace? Isn't Jerry known for sending his guys out to run a specific pace regardless of what the competition does?
Webb didn't wear a watch in the race so this theory may be a bit half-cocked but it isn't unreasonable to think that a guy might have been calling out a 1mile split and Webb just held pace or adjusted his pace accordingly.
