What are the US men missing in marathon training????

Ho Hum wrote:

Quote from David Epstein:

Quote of day from the Chicago Marathon champ: "Before 2010 I was concentrating on farming and had never run before."

3 years to go from farmer to Chicago champ. That's talent.

That is absolutely incredible.

But, as a Kenyan Farmer, he probably walked more miles in a week than a typical American runner runs. Entirely different cultural, from birth and throughout life.

Yes, walking does wonders for your running, especially when you do it all through your formative years.

Rupp will probably break 2:04 because he has most of the genetic attributes that the average Kenyan farmer has.

However by the time he runs under 2:04 the record will likely be 2:02.

If your theory holds water, then we can assume we have even a much deeper marathon superstar field in India and China, which are giants in population compared to the USA.

Smartest post so far in this thread.

joho wrote:

That is absolutely incredible.

But, as a Kenyan Farmer, he probably walked more miles in a week than a typical American runner runs. Entirely different cultural, from birth and throughout life.

It's not just the US men - look at Tadese. Declared one of the most efficient runners (running economy-wise) by sportsscientists, he has the fastest half marathon ever and can't even break 2:10 after multiple attempts. 5 marathon failures (that I know of) are pretty telling.

What a race! That was fun to watch...their running is beautiful art man! Dennis and Emmanuel were flying and then Rita must have surprised herself too!

For a second, I thought if there was no prize money for the africans...results would have been:

Mens:

1 Ritzenhein, Dathan (USA)30 2:09:45

2 Sano, Hiroaki (JPN) 29 2:10:29

3 Oda, Yoshinori (JPN) 32 2:11:29

4 Tegenkamp, Matt (USA) 31 2:12:28

5 Shelley, Michael (AUS) 29 2:13:11

6 Leon, Craig (USA) 28 2:13:53

7 Higashino, Kenji (JPN) 26 2:13:53

8 Fujimori, Norihide (JPN)28 2:13:55

9 Morgan, Mike (USA) 33 2:15:01

10 Jefferson, Fidele (USA) 35 2:15:19

11 Tanaka, Hiroki (JPN) 30 2:15:36

12 Ward, Jared (USA) 25 2:16:18

13 Otsuka, Yoshiki (JPN) 30 2:16:58

14 Quigley, Sean (USA) 28 2:17:46

15 Mull, Brandon (USA) 27 2:18:14

Womens

1 Konovalova, Maria (RUS) 39 2:22:46

2 Duliba, Aliaksandra(BLR)27 2:23:44

3 Akaba, Yukiko (JPN) 33 2:27:49

4 Santucci, Clara (USA) 26 2:31:39

5 White, Melissa (USA) 32 2:32:37

6 Knowles, Laurie (USA) 35 2:36:29

7 Pezzullo, Stephanie(USA)31 2:38:04

8 Slaby, Gina (USA) 32 2:40:45

9 Trana, Gabriela (CRI) 33 2:41:50

10 Eder, Elizabeth (USA) 26 2:42:37

11 Heenan, Erin (USA) 31 2:42:47

12 Heckert, Kristen (USA) 26 2:44:13

13 Crowley, Loring (USA) 30 2:44:13

14 Braswell, Erica (USA) 33 2:45:24

15 Kelly, Mary (USA) 26 2:50:24

That would definitely conceal the exhilaration of what I watched today!

I think one thing we have to take into account is training groups. Geoffrey Mutai trains with 50-60 athletes I believe, and among them Dennis Kimetto. In America our training groups are much smaller. When you have a huge pack of runners just grinding out some intense workouts it likely pushes you harder and calluses the mind and body for racing.

Also, the Kenyans have a tougher up bringing so they are stronger mentally. I think this, going to marathon at a younger age, the larger training groups, and the larger cultural acceptance of running, are some of the larger factors making Kenyans better.

If Ritz was training with 2:03 Kenyans, would he run closer to his potential?

Nah, he'd just get hurt. But imagine if Derrick, Rupp, Abdi, Meb, Hall, Ritz, Teg, Solinsky, and True were all training together for the marathon and all raced Chicago. Probably a bunch of them would get hurt, a bunch would blow up in the race, but 1-2 would drop an impressive time. That's what happens with the African runners, except that they're faster to begin with. So we still wouldn't compete, but you'd get a guy or two dipping into 2:04-2:05.

There needs to be more long term development at early ages, take America's best at 14-15 and get them gradually up to 100-120 mpw marathon training instead of burning them out on pissant college conference meet 8Ks. Also, the stature of the sport really needs to be restored, admittedly a tall order when American's sports conscience extends about as far as "see ball hit ball."

Africans are motivated by money, cause $1 goes a lot further in Kenya than it does in America. There's so much money in the marathon that more African talent is gravitating towards the marathon. There's less opportunity for "success" for Americans.

P wrote:

I just love how you asshats can dis runners who break 2.10 and nearly 2.12, go out and try it yourself. These are top times and times you could never run yet you all sit back acting like assclowns like your shit doesn't stink..get out and try to do something real yourself like these are guys are giving their best shot to do.

Yeah, can any of you guys even hold 3 minute/4:50 pace for a 5k?

NotAustin18 wrote:

Also, the Kenyans have a tougher up bringing so they are stronger mentally. I think this, going to marathon at a younger age, the larger training groups, and the larger cultural acceptance of running, are some of the larger factors making Kenyans better.

I agree...plus genetics. Kimetto said he didn't even run before 2010. And now look at him. If that's not genetics, I don't know what is. You'd never see that happening in the US to some farmer.

And they are incredibly tough mentally. They didn't grow like most Americans.

I remember when they interviewed Daniel Komen, the only person to run 2mi in

Giant Johnson wrote:

After a quick wiki search: "the NBA in 2011 was composed of 83 percent non-white players, including 78 percent black".

Black people playing basketball is as genetic as white people playing hockey.

Long runs, e.g., 24-26 miles long.

basketball is a city sport. The top players used to all be Jewish, because they lived in the inner city. People created all sorts of cultural, psychological, and genetic explanations for Jews being better than whites at basketball.

If you're in the city, you can't build as many baseball fields or tracks as you can basketball courts.

Peace Out wrote:

What are they missing???? How about growing up *running* as a means of catching your food and commuting to school, 10 miles one way? Didn't Geb even say he ran home for lunch and then back to school again? Not to mention, knowing that the only way to make your way out of extreme poverty is to win marathons (and there are 100 other guys in your village who can kick your butt on any given day, I would say the motivation factor is HUGE)

I mean come on, when the 2011 world record holder can't even make the Kenyan Olympic marathon team...these guys (Kenyans/Ethiopians) are just in another league and no other country will ever be able to do what they do.

Why is it that ALL Kenyans live far away from school? The schools must be in the wrong places.

As someone who lived in Iten for a while at the HATC and then on my own in Eldoret, I will tell you that it is everything. All of the above. The genetics are outstanding. Everyone looks like they could be a 2:08 guy. Everyone. The food is simple. The life is sooo boring that the highlight of each day was the run (or three). It isn't flat there either. Take that idea of Kenyan's running in the prairie out of your head. They are charging hills in training groups wearing Nike fly-wire. There is no shortage of running shoes, or tights for that matter. I went there to learn how to train and became demoralized at how there are herds, yes herds, of runners faster than Ritz or Hall (probably even Rupp) who will never race on a big stage. These runners are so bored they have no option but to do everything right.

The infrastructure in the US is flawed for young distance runners. Too much emphasis on the amateur NCAA which burns out many athletes before they can start earning money from the sport.

A lot of athletes would benefit from taking a more long term professional approach to their running career rather than killing themselves to earn points for their college every week.