I support Competitor group's decision to withdraw support for Elite Athletes

Yes, these are the same clueless idiots who distributed water from fire hydrants at RnR Vegas hydration tables.

Worth a bump?

Taco Truck wrote:

NOBODY cares who wins or what the winning time is.

I don't think that's the case. The majority of mid to back of the packers I know talk a lot about the lead packers.

However, they'll still sign up for races if there are no fast runners entered, so a race organizers should do whatever works for them.

I think that if elite distance running and runner development is going to thrive, an Association has to be devoted to it in a way that other successful professional athletic associations are to their sports stars.

They will have to do some savvy marketing to drum up hype,interest, and excitement, generating a fan base, and delivering a good experience for the paying fan. Heck, if the WNBA can make it, why couldn't an elite running circuit of some kind? There sure is a hell of a lot more excitement at multi-team high school and collegiate cross country races than there is at most major league baseball games.

I think for U.S. elite distance running to make a real go at it professionally, they are going to have to do it "stand alone", apart from relying on the "races for the masses", as "the masses" is whom those races are responsible to serving first and foremost.

If those who want to see elite running become a successful profession would just get unified and organized to build and promote something worth getting excited about on a national level, for example, developing a league of teams, nation wide, with drafts out of college, etc., create a "team racing" circuit, with courses allowing for great crowd viewing, be it road or cross, and bring it out to a paying public to view on a weekly or every other week basis, with a season structure leading to a championship event, for example, all the while hammering the marketing, it will force people to take notice and become interested in showing support as paying spectators.

All the extraeneous B.S. that helps draw otherwise uninterested people out to view the other sports (cheerleaders, beer, souveniers, sales items, etc, etc.) would certainly play well into bringing people out to the races as well, and enjoying the experience regardless.

HRE wrote:

There was a time when all runners were completely on their own in terms of support. Some of us managed to do it and not just by working at Burger King and living in poverty. Realistically, those days are gone and I doubt that many of our top people would stay in the sport if they had to work a full time job.

And yet Kawauchi shows that it's still possible. So our top people are choosing not to try to do it unless they are pampered. That is a different situation from those days being gone.

survey says wrote:

And yet Kawauchi shows that it's still possible. So our top people are choosing not to try to do it unless they are pampered. That is a different situation from those days being gone.

Where does Kawauchi figure in the world rankings?

survey says wrote:

And yet Kawauchi shows that it's still possible. So our top people are choosing not to try to do it unless they are pampered. That is a different situation from those days being gone.

you really believe Kawauchi gets no "special" treatment by his company or race directors?

RNR is a big business,...what do you wanna give back? They make tons of money and still exploit the ones that are sucked in as volunteers thinking they give back. At 200 bucks for a race I think there's no need to help out...

Formerly decent wrote:

As a 35 year old former runner I view things differently.

I ran 63:30 for a half marathon.

I never spoke at an EXPO.

I never wrote a letter to thank a sponsor.

I never thanked anyone other than the EAQ

I never came into a City to run with a Local running club

I never stuck around the city after the race to support the city.

I NEVER ADDED TO THE QUALITY OF THE EVENT.

I paid a massage therapist $200 a month and when I felt like it no longer helped my performance (my business). I stopped getting massage.

RNR will see no dip in their numbers at their events because WE ADD NOTHING. Much like me making the decision to not pay for massage if I didn't think it helped, RNR feels the same way.

Great post! This is a point I have made over and over to anyone who will listen. There is no value in recruiting or incentivising elite talent that doesn't create a positive return on investment by connecting to the target market. Local winners drive registrations. Elite winners drive interest. Ask an RD which one pays the bills.

The best case scenario for a race director in terms of the elite field is to support local talent at the highest level they can attract. Locals live and work in the community, which is very attractive to the consumer, will do whatever pre and post-race promotion you would like for free (I did all of the things Formerly Decent never did, for free), and will ultimately spend the money they win in the local economy (I spent every penny of mine within 80 miles of where I earned it).

Competitor Group is showing us the truth of the market: elite talent doesn't pay for itself. It's not even an investment, it's just good money wasted.

common wrote:

The best case scenario for a race director in terms of the elite field is to support local talent at the highest level they can attract. Locals live and work in the community, which is very attractive to the consumer, will do whatever pre and post-race promotion you would like for free (I did all of the things Formerly Decent never did, for free), and will ultimately spend the money they win in the local economy (I spent every penny of mine within 80 miles of where I earned it).

Competitor Group is showing us the truth of the market: elite talent doesn't pay for itself. It's not even an investment, it's just good money wasted.

This is kind of irrelevant because RnR doesn't draw local talent. Local talent knows that it doesn't have to pay out the a$$ to run a race, that it can often get comped at smaller races, that smaller races are generally better for running fast times anyways. Local talent knows at which races to find other local talent.

common wrote:

Great post! This is a point I have made over and over to anyone who will listen. There is no value in recruiting or incentivising elite talent that doesn't create a positive return on investment by connecting to the target market. Local winners drive registrations. Elite winners drive interest. Ask an RD which one pays the bills.

They both can if done correctly. It's the same reason Samsung pays £18m a year to have SAMSUNG across the Chelsea vest. It's on air visibility.

Given that almost no one is doing it, I'd say those days are gone. It would be great if they came back to some extent.

I'm a fan of Kawauchi partly because I love seeing people go their own way and partly because I hope that some of our guys will take a look at what he's doing and decide that they also could run seriously and work.

Regardless of where Kawauchi stands in the world rankings, a US runner turning in Kawauchi's performances would be at or very close to the top of the US rankings.

Do it wrote:

And to add. Ron Clarke had a full time gig yet broke world records. It is possible. The notion that we'll never win medals is wrong. East African interest will drop. Runners will be less inclined to talk drugs. Our golden era was during an time when money was scarce.

Great post. As you imply this would be the best way to tackle the drugs issue which has now spiralled beyond the control of any regulatory authority. I am not interested in watching some running drone that has been infused with thyroid-hormone, EPO, and anabolic steroids. Reducing the East-African particpiation will also help clean out corrupt agents and coaches which is nothing but a good thing. The sport will gain hugely if it evolves in this way. Ask yourself what exactly do the East Africans themselves give back right now? - absolutely nothing.

There will be far more interest if the sport goes back to its amateur roots and it will grow again in strength and depth. Look at the in interest in Kawauchi in Japan and on these boards. Think if there were several more like him and how that would inspire many working stiffs to give it a go. ALL race organisers should make these moves and contrary to suffering, the sport will start to return to its golden era.

Scott Dickey, the head of CGI, got on Toni Reavis' blog post and commented the following:

http://tonireavis.com/2013/09/01/competitor-group-pulls-the-plug-on-elite-racing/#more-8038

Toni, after reading your post I thought it might be best that I reply publicly to clear the air a bit. Let me start by reinforcing my respect for you and all you have done for the sport. There are very few individuals that have dedicated so much energy, passion and hours to the sport of running like you Toni, and for that we all owe you a huge debt of gratitude.

I was somewhat surprised to read your post today especially after yesterday’s public quote in the Runner’s World? For those that didn’t have a chance to read that piece Toni’s quote started with: “I don’t blame them,” Reavis told Runner’s World Newswire. For the full quote and story, here’s the link.

http://www.runnersworld.com/races/rock-n-roll-series-significantly-lessens-elite-program

I don’t fault you for reviewing our decision and for changing your mind after further reflection. But I do want to clear up a few things.

“Poof” as you put it when referring to the overnight decision is a tad inaccurate. Our decision to no longer pay appearance fees for Elites in our North American RnR events was a difficult one to say the least. This is not a ‘practical end’ of our support of the sport, but it was a clear strategic acknowledgement of investing in elements that impact all 500,000 runners at RnR events not just the 50 or so at the front of the pack.

Competitor Group is at it’s core a health and wellness company dedicated to promoting and enhancing an active lifestyle. Lifestyle is the key word, not Sport. Rock n Roll marathons have always been about the journey, the commitment, the personal dedication required to train and finish a half or full marathon. We’re not about how fast you complete the race, we’re about the fact that you showed up on the start line and the commitment one has made to complete the journey.

We will always celebrate the achievements of the greatest athletes in the Sport and hold them up as inspiration for all of us to enjoy. We will do this through our media assets like Competitor mag, Competitor.com, Triathlete mag, Triathlete.com, Women’s Running mag, Women’s Running.com. We have more staff dedicated to reporting on the Sport than any company in the world other than Rodale. With regard to RnR, we will always welcome the elites, we are just not going to spend in excess of 7-figures annually to simply have them show up. It represents a disconnect from the brand and the very promise of participating in a RnR event. We’re going to reinvest those dollars into entertainment, the experience, more staff to execute more flawlessly, and in our continued efforts to increase participation.

While we are the largest series in the world, we’re not the only ones who have taken this position. Of the 5 top marketshare properties in the U.S. (Competitor, Disney, NYRR, US Road Sports and Nike), only one of them, NYRR, has a significant investment in Elite Athletes at their races. So while our decision may disappoint, it certainly is not without precedent.

With regard to TV component of your post, I want to remind you that it wasn’t until last year that NYRR and Mary were able to secure a national broadcast deal with ESPN after so many years of having a local ABC time buy. As you know, the media landscape has changed dramatically in the past five years, and while we continue to seek broadcast partners on a market by market basis (KLAS in Vegas, WRAL in Raleigh, etc), the ability to sell advertising in support of such broadcasts is difficult to say the least and a much more complicated process than the picture you are painting. I know you understand this intimately.

While I understand that financial investors are always an easy target, I find the whole private equity discussion somewhat naive. You don’t have to look very far for great analogies to understand that increased public and private investment into a Sport can lead to tremendous growth for all. Private equity investment strategy is all about growth. You don’t cut your way to growth. Our decision to reinvest in other areas of the experience is a strategic decision and not one that we take lightly for a moment. You don’t have to look far, maybe start with the annual Running USA participation studies, to confirm the facts about RnR’s contributions to the sport and the growth of the industry. We have taken more risk, invested more dollars than anyone in the history of the industry and whether it is the highest percentage of female participation in the industry or the highest percentage of first timers joining the fun, I’m not sure it is valid to question our dedication or commitment to promoting running and growing participation.

And by the way, let’s not forget that almost all of the industry’s dominate players operate as public equity or private equity operations: Active, Disney, Nike, Lifetime, World Triathlon Corp and Competitor. WIth outside investment industries grow, innovate and become more sophisticated. I don’t think Competitor needs to apologize or hide from this basic fundamental premise.

With much respect,

Scott Dickey

President/CEO

Competitor Group

Lord Lindsay wrote:

Look at the in interest in Kawauchi in Japan and on these boards. Think if there were several more like him and how that would inspire many working stiffs to give it a go. ALL race organisers should make these moves and contrary to suffering, the sport will start to return to its golden era.

How did he finance his travels to Germany, Australia, South Korea and Egypt just in the last two years? Not out of his own salary as a civil servant, for sure.

"Several more like him" means more runners who travel on the race sponsors' money, precisely what CGI is terminating. Do you understand how ironic your post is?

You're onto something but you will need athlete buy-in at the highest levels. I want to see Galen Rupp and Shalane Flanagan but they need a reason to join this Association.

"Lifestyle is the key word. not Sport." There it is. Makes Steve Boyd look smart.

I don't want one cent to go towards feeding rupp's dope habit.