which state has the hardest high state xc course?

The hardest state meet cross country course I ever saw was the Alabama course back in the early 1990's when I lived in Birmingham. It was constant steep hills in high grass.

That was a long time ago so they probably moved it by now to a race track or something like Ohio did.

Bowdoin Park (Wappinger Falls, New York) and Sunken Meadow (Kings Park, New York) have to be some of the toughest I've ever seen. Sunken Meadow is a course that just get more brutal as the race goes on but ends on a flat all out sprint. Bowdoin Park is just incredibly hilly and often very muddy.

I doubt any of you have heard of this course but Red Creek Park out in Hampton Bays, New York is a very unpopular course (there's one small invitational there during XC season and only two teams race there for their meets) but another very tough course. I've raced much slower at Red Creek than I did at Sunken Meadow and I've run at both courses probably twenty times each. It is literally all sand, roots, hills and ankle-high grass. There is probably 600 meters in all of flat running on grass. I would say Red Creek is much tougher than Sunken Meadow and definitely slower but it's less intimidating.

Delaware had a course called Brandywine Creek that was held for a lot of the state meets (this is the old course, they changed it because all the new coaches that took over SUCK). The old course was really tough.

The course was also used at the Salesianum Invitational, a massive meet each year. Alan Webb ran it his junior year and couldn't break 16:00 on it.

Galcolm Mladwell wrote:

Derryfield Park in New Hampshire is tough. You run up the side of a ski hill...

I'm not familiar with the actual XC course but I ran a road race a few weeks ago starting at Derryfield. Is there seriously a ski hill in the middle of Manchester?

Bearcat wrote:

Holmdel is pretty hard, not just in terms of how difficult it is to run but in how difficult it is to run well.

Agreed. I don't think I ran faster than 17:10 there after multiple tries. And running high 15s on a fast course.

virginia private schools: Woodberry forest is no joke, some of the hills are murder

Overall it has to be NY by far.

I'll go with Vermont but I only know the northeast courses. I'd have a hard time believing anything was much harder than Thetford

California has one of the toughest 3M courses in the country in Palos Verdes High School. The course record for boys is 15:43; the same boy ran 14:55 at Mt.Sac and 15:15 at Woodard. Girls record is 19:12; same girl ran 17:12 at Mt.Sac and 17:34 at Woodward. The biggest hill is called "Agony Hill" for a reason.

http://www.livestrong.com/loops/palos_verdes_palos_verdes_high_school_cross_country_course-sOTrS1KKrU/

I haven't read every post but here is my take. I ran HS in TX but have family all over the country so have run a couple courses when visiting family.

I've run the state xc courses in Texas, Maryland, New York, Missouri, Louisiana, and Arkansas.

Without a doubt the hardest course (of those mentioned above) was Maryland. The Missouri course is also quite difficult.

Louisiana (terrible course) and Texas (in Round Rock) are both the easiest of those mentioned.

Homdel shouldn't be in the conversation. For high school meets they remove half of the hardest part, the back woods. I ran two 8k XC conference championships there and while I agree its a tough course, it doesn't hurt until you hit the back woods.

I have run at Thetford, derryfield, sunkenmeadow, wickham, and homdel. I'd rank them in that order.

takeitfromthisguys wrote:

I haven't read every post but here is my take. I ran HS in TX but have family all over the country so have run a couple courses when visiting family.

I've run the state xc courses in Texas, Maryland, New York, Missouri, Louisiana, and Arkansas.

Without a doubt the hardest course (of those mentioned above) was Maryland. The Missouri course is also quite difficult.

Louisiana (terrible course) and Texas (in Round Rock) are both the easiest of those mentioned.

i agree. MD's course is the hardest I've ever run on or seen.

new englander wrote:

Galcolm Mladwell wrote:

Derryfield Park in New Hampshire is tough. You run up the side of a ski hill...

I'm not familiar with the actual XC course but I ran a road race a few weeks ago starting at Derryfield. Is there seriously a ski hill in the middle of Manchester?

Yes, yes there is

The Usual Suspects wrote:

California has one of the toughest 3M courses in the country in Palos Verdes High School. The course record for boys is 15:43; the same boy ran 14:55 at Mt.Sac and 15:15 at Woodard. Girls record is 19:12; same girl ran 17:12 at Mt.Sac and 17:34 at Woodward. The biggest hill is called "Agony Hill" for a reason.

http://www.livestrong.com/loops/palos_verdes_palos_verdes_high_school_cross_country_course-sOTrS1KKrU/

How is it that the female record-holder's performance varies so much more substantially than the male record-holder's performance?

Northfield Mountain in western Mass. is sick. First mile will make you nauseous. Probably tougher than Sunken Meadow on Long Island. The second mile in Northfield is a net downhill, but there is one more short/tough hill with about 600 meters to go. Northfield Mountain is run every third year.

The Ridges Golf Course in Wisconsin is pretty tough as well.

but I agree on Holmdel -- great course to run, hard course to run WELL. Sunken Meadows, yes, brutal. Surprised though not to see any votes for Van Cortland, in the Bronx.

derryfield is hard wickham isn't quite as bad, thetford is by far the worst.

and if by NY you mean the NXN course, its not that bad