How to do a proper standing start?
How to do a proper standing start?
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Galen out of the blocks in spikes (with a good start for him) in good conditions my guess is 11.6 FAT or so
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, wait...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Regarding a standing start, those guys might want to learn how to do one properly, including Mo:
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Galen+Rupp/13th+IAAF+World+Athletics+Championships+Daegu/dMRar2DinIhLOL, it hurts.
If Galen Rupp or any other fast professional distance runner out there is reading this PLEASE run a FAT 100m dash time trial and record it to prove this dbag wrong. Numerous pros from the 1500m+ can break 12s in a 100. Idk what is with Sgeezer whether it is pure stubbornness or relentless trolling.
If we count 800 guys Rudisha could probably break 11/22 for a 100/200. And to say he couldnt (as a 45s 400 guy) is pure foolishness. same with Juantorena
the best distance runners in the world never try sprinting. or are there legions of ethiopian and kenyan sprinters beating the future distance runners and sending them up distance?
Optimus wrote:
There is no way that's true. If Mo could only run 12.9 THERE IS NO WAY Cam could run a 11.5. It was probably more like 90 meters.
11.5 is pretty quick, but not so quick that I would say it is not accurate. And, I am sure Mo is faster than 12.9 with a rolling start. If you are a natural slow twitch, you just don't have the explosiveness to get up to speed in a 100m. Being that Mo has closed a 5k in 54, he obviously has very good speed for a distance runner.
.TrackCoach wrote:
Optimus wrote:There is no way that's true. If Mo could only run 12.9 THERE IS NO WAY Cam could run a 11.5. It was probably more like 90 meters.
11.5 is pretty quick, but not so quick that I would say it is not accurate. And, I am sure Mo is faster than 12.9 with a rolling start. If you are a natural slow twitch, you just don't have the explosiveness to get up to speed in a 100m. Being that Mo has closed a 5k in 54, he obviously has very good speed for a distance runner.
Mo can do better than 12.9 for 100m, confidence level = very high
Sprintgeezer wrote:
If it were me measuring distance runners doing 100's, first of all there is no way I would do it from zero velocity. Totally irrelevant to distance racing. So, I would do it at speed.
I would probably simulate race conditions somewhat. I would have them run 100m or 200m at what they consider fast race speed; have them run by an automatic start with maybe 120m or 130m to go, and tell them not to start "sprinting" until there is only 100m left.
I think this is spot on.
When mid dist guys want to develop (what we foolishly call) speed, the usual technique is 150s - maybe 6-10 reps as a session, or 3-4 at the end of another session. And we're all thinking 'kick off the final bend', because that's where the decisive move is usually made, and it's what we want to train ourselves to do.
The real key measure is what you can do for that last 100 when tired. Peter Coe said it best: "Repeatable sprinting speed, available on demand."
The other weird thing is that we often don't know how to hit top speed on the first rep of a session. Gary Staines, a top uk 5000 runner from the 1980s, reckons that if you asked him to run a top speed 400m, he could do it again just as fast or maybe faster 3min later.
A couple of months back my coach, who has a sprint background, gave me a speed test. Full warmup, 3x40m with long rests, then an all-out 200m. I did it, but it didn't feel like much of a session so I waited a bit, then did another 5x200 with 200m jogs in between in 90 seconds or so. rep #3 of that mini-set, off just 90sec rest, was faster than the all-out time trial.
This is not unusual. During an all-out speed session, we slowpokes are actually figuring out what to do with our limbs as we go.
So, a really great test and guide to progress would be to have freelap on the last 100m, and see what you can hit at the end of a session. It would probably go faster that a standalone test.
@eurodonkey,
Do you believe Mo Farah can only sprint a 12.9 100m?
I run d3 and have PRs of 15:13 and 31:22.
As a HS sr I ran 4:28/9:41. I also ran 11.72 electric time.
I got like 3rd in the 4th heat.
college_5k wrote:
I run d3 and have PRs of 15:13 and 31:22.
As a HS sr I ran 4:28/9:41. I also ran 11.72 electric time.
I got like 3rd in the 4th heat.
Cool, but I think Sprintgeezer is saying that world class distance runners will have a hard time breaking 12. Your distance times are pretty far away from being world class for women.
I suspect Farah was not at his best in the Autumn running in cold weather after having competed in various other sporting events the same day. I would suspect him to be capable of running 12 low from a stationary start (FAT) peak season.
This is someone capable of 3:33 for 1500 (and probably 1:47 for 800), both times quite a bit quicker than Cam Levins has run for those distances.
I would not expect Levins to be capable of 11.5 from blocks or stationary start. Perhaps with a rolling start with hand timing. An 11.5 ht is worth c. 11.7/11.8 FAT, and this for a rolling start. From a stationary start Levins doesn't break 12.
If we look at Ovett, who started off as a sprinter (400 and 200) in his early mid teens, we can see that the idea of Levins, someone considerably slower at 800m, being capable of 11.5 seems implausible. Ovett's progression also shows that speed in your teens is not always replicated with maturity and improved 800 ability.
In 1970, aged 14, Ovett ran 11.8 in competition. In fact he competed several times that year over 100m at proper meets, and ran in the 11.8-12.1 range. In those days times, even FAT, were rounded and published to the nearest 1/10th. While it isn't certain these all were FAT times, they would certainly be from a stationary start. Again, it isn't clear whether these were from blocks, as the use of only became obligatory in 1980.
The following year, 1971, aged 15, he ran fewer 100's, but still managed to record 12.0, 23.5 (200) and 49.7 (400). By this time he was starting to experiment with 800s too, 1:55.3.
After that he ran no 100s in competition until 1978, but did improve his 200m pb to 23.0 in 1972 (aged 16) & his 400 to 48.4. So his speed is still improving, although his 800 is now 1:52.5
By 1975, by which time he is 19 and the European 800 silver medallist (1:45.8) from '74, he reaches a peak with his 200pb of 21.7. There is no record of competing at 100 that year, but he had run a 400 the year before in 47.5. These remain his pbs for 200 and 400.
The only other time he runs 100m is in 1978, arguably his best season, certainly his fastest over 800m with 1:44.09. That year he ran 11.5 for 100 (fastest he ever ran in competition), 22.9 for 200 and a 47.4 relay leg for 400m. His best open 400 that year was 48.4.
So despite being at his 800 best in 1978, aged 22, he is no faster over 200 or 400 than he had been as a 19 year old in 1975, when his 800 pb was a couple of seconds slower and his 1500 was much slower (3:43).
The story of Ovett would seem to imply 2 things.
1) That for an elite middle distance runner, you don't necessarily get faster over the sprints from a teenager to when you reach your peak at your chosen longer distance. In fact it's highly likely that you will be slightly slower.
E.g. Ovett ran 11.8 at 14 and 23.0 at 16. When at 800 peak in 78 at 22, his times were only marginally faster; 11.5/22.9
2) That if a 48.0/1:44.0 Ovett in 78 can run 11.5 and 22.9 (albeit on the same day) it is highly unlikely that a 1:49/3:42 Levins could match him over 100m.
On the other hand, I do think some of the sprint experts on here do somewhat underestimate the speed that some middle distance men can produce. People like Rudisha, Coe, Kipketer could all run close to 11 flat FAT from a standing start (as opposed to blocks, which may take a bit of practice) in the 100 and under 22 for 200m.
For people like Farah, Levins, Rupp its more likely 12.0/23 high.
Am I missing something here?
World class distance runners would go under 11 for 100 with a rolling start, and do it over and over.
11.5 with a standing start is not that fast.
Someone else mentioned that Rudisha could probably go under 22 for 200. Probably?!?!
The guy runs 45 for 400, and he'd go well under 22 for 200.
I used to run 11.2-3 for 100 electric - and I really didn't think I was that fast.
Speed is hugely underrated by too many people in this forum.
deanouk wrote:
The story of Ovett would seem to imply 2 things.
1) That for an elite middle distance runner, you don't necessarily get faster over the sprints from a teenager to when you reach your peak at your chosen longer distance. In fact it's highly likely that you will be slightly slower.
E.g. Ovett ran 11.8 at 14 and 23.0 at 16. When at 800 peak in 78 at 22, his times were only marginally faster; 11.5/22.9
2) That if a 48.0/1:44.0 Ovett in 78 can run 11.5 and 22.9 (albeit on the same day) it is highly unlikely that a 1:49/3:42 Levins could match him over 100m.
On the other hand, I do think some of the sprint experts on here do somewhat underestimate the speed that some middle distance men can produce. People like Rudisha, Coe, Kipketer could all run close to 11 flat FAT from a standing start (as opposed to blocks, which may take a bit of practice) in the 100 and under 22 for 200m.
For people like Farah, Levins, Rupp its more likely 12.0/23 high.
That's some very usefully info about Ovett.
It is still difficult to draw sound conclusions about what world class runners can do for 100m based on what Ovett did. How serious were Ovett's efforts at 100 & 200m?
I don't think a 11.5 for Levins is impossible, but I do think Mo can go faster than 12.9!
saying mo can only run 12.9 is like trying to get a time on bolt's 800m warmup jog and calling it his 800m time.
There are plenty of examples of mid-d guys running (without being serious at all) at or below 11-mid FAT.
Some of these slow sprinters think they are unique in their 12-busting abilities...but that is wishful thinking.
I ran under 12 FAT as a hershey track kid aged like 13. By HS I was able to run 8x100 with 90s rest under 12. Granted this was flying start. By age 22 I would crank 6x100 w/2min rest in 11.5-11.8 outta blocks. This was with a sprint-style start amongst our quarter milers. Timing was the sprint coach - but I don't have any reason to doubt it since I would routinely finish workouts with 100m strides in 11-low from flying start and that felt a lot easier.
tv showtime wrote:
saying mo can only run 12.9 is like trying to get a time on bolt's 800m warmup jog and calling it his 800m time.
There are plenty of examples of mid-d guys running (without being serious at all) at or below 11-mid FAT.
Some of these slow sprinters think they are unique in their 12-busting abilities...but that is wishful thinking.
I ran under 12 FAT as a hershey track kid aged like 13. By HS I was able to run 8x100 with 90s rest under 12. Granted this was flying start. By age 22 I would crank 6x100 w/2min rest in 11.5-11.8 outta blocks. This was with a sprint-style start amongst our quarter milers. Timing was the sprint coach - but I don't have any reason to doubt it since I would routinely finish workouts with 100m strides in 11-low from flying start and that felt a lot easier.
We're talking about WORLD CLASS distance runners. Not Hershey track kids.
tv showtime wrote:
saying mo can only run 12.9 is like trying to get a time on bolt's 800m warmup jog and calling it his 800m time.
Except Farah ran his in a race. He ran a 12.98 100 (from blocks). There is no chance in hell any 5k/10k guys in the world could run under 12 in the hundred.
jdjdjd wrote:
We're talking about WORLD CLASS distance runners. Not Hershey track kids.
Where is the evidence that shows that "world class" distance runners, usually can not sprint under 12 sec for 100M?
subfive wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:.11.5 is pretty quick, but not so quick that I would say it is not accurate. And, I am sure Mo is faster than 12.9 with a rolling start. If you are a natural slow twitch, you just don't have the explosiveness to get up to speed in a 100m. Being that Mo has closed a 5k in 54, he obviously has very good speed for a distance runner.
Mo can do better than 12.9 for 100m, confidence level = very high
I am not sure I understand what you mean, but I ran faster than 12.9 in middle school and I wasn't a true sprinter. I am sure Mo is faster than I was at age 13.
High Wire wrote:
In trainers.
He definitely had some gears that Lalang and the others lacked last year. So much for mega miles destroying speed.
He should do an exhibition 100 against Rupp, Mo, Derrick, Manzano, Centro et al. Blocks, spikes, FAT.
Everybody knows that the fastest flying 100m by a miler was run by Alan Webb and that was after an 800m flying start.
"If Galen Rupp or any other fast professional distance runner out there is reading this PLEASE run a FAT 100m dash time trial and record it to prove this dbag wrong."
Yes, please DO.
Mo could go below 13--in fact, before his race, I had him for between 12.50-13.00, of course 12.98 is at the top end of that scale.
Other distance guys could probably go faster than Mo. I would give some of them 12.25-12.50
A rare one like Jeilan might be able to dip below 12.00, depending on how his start went.
But yes, please, hop into some race with good official timing (not in Eugene) and shut up all the distance fanboys on this site, who talk a lot but don't put up any numbers themselves.
I would have thought that after Mo's performance, some of you would have eased off, but apparently not.
Ruppster, you are amazing at distance--but you have nothing to lose by recording a FAT 100m with legal wind. You will not be flamed by anybody, I promise. This will have no bearing on your greatness as a distance runner--heck, Mo did it, and you can do better than 12.98, right?
Or Levins, you canuck--you do it! I have posted my embarrassing treadmill 5k times here, but it's funny to me because I don't consider myself a distance runner. I am not diminished by other guys coming on here and claiming sub-15 times. Surely you are comfortable enough in who you are to do a FAT 100m with a wind gauge!
Aren't you guys curious? Just for fun?
Great vid of Rupp doing weight/strength training:
Check him out at around 1:10, developing his knee drive like he's driving out of the blocks.