Letsrun staff thinks xc should replace the 10,000m in the Olympics. Are they mentally challenged?

That's a good idea. The biggest problem with Track and Field today is that the tracks are all standard, leading to an emphasis on world records. While they create a bubble of hype, they ultimately kill durable interest in the sport. Switching to events with non-standard tracks would lead to building up rivalries.

rivalries > records.

I find it interesting how many track fans (I presume that's who comes to letsrun) think that the 10000m is becoming viewer-unfriendly. How many memorable Olympic moments have been in the 10k?

1920, 1928 Part of Nurmi legacy

1952, 1956 Part of Zatopek legacy

1964 Mills

1972 Viren part I

1976 Viren part II

1980 Yifter the shifter

1992 Skah vs Chelimo controversy

1996 Geb over Tergat part I

2000 Geb over Tergat part II

2004, 2008 Bekele legacy

2012 Farah

Meanwhile, can anyone remember a 5000m at the Olympics that generated such headlines? Aside from Farah, Bekele, El Guerrouj, Zatopek, Yifter, Viren, and Nurmi adding to their legacy with 5000m wins, what's the biggest 5000m story at the Olympics? Ngugi's frontrun win?

The 10000m has consistently been more dramatic.

I can't believe people have said the 10000m is the most unwatchable event in the Olympic program. What about racewalking?

As for XC, good points have been made on both sides as to whether it belongs in the summer or winter olympics. Clearly the solution is to split the middle and create:

Autumn Olympics!

All sports must be done on mud or grass surfaces. Cross country, BMX (move from summer olympics), downhill mountain biking, golf, croquet, equestrian (move from summer olympics), etc.

Or maybe make World XC part of the X games. Get Red Bull, Monster, and GoPro into the sponsorship pool...

I agree with you about the 10000. In the past year we have had World XC, the Olympic 5000 and the Olympic 10000. I think most would say that the Olympic 10000 was the most exciting to watch out of the three. It is usually more exciting than the 5000 and has seen the likes of some of the greatest ever. The 10000 was home for Geb, Tegat, Viren and Bekele and they sure as hell ran some pretty fvcking good races.

Put the DMR in the Olympics

For once I actually agree with you.

It's not so much that the 10,000 is uninteresting, it's that the only viable way to get XC in the Olympics would be to replace the 10,000.

And an XC event would be more interesting than a track 10,000, especially if you still have a track 5000 race upcoming.

Oh come, no tactics to the race. I suppose it did not matter where Mo was positioned at the start of the last lap. I suppose it did not matter how and if he responded to the numerous surges during the race. It also did not matter that he went to the front and held everyone off on the last lap, and it did not matter how much of his kick he started with 300, 200, 150 to go. He was just a machine and was just winding up.

Watch the '72 10k for an exciting race. Then watch the '76. It looks boring . Viren just sits on Lopes and out kicks him easily. Boring right? Well, how did the race come down to just those two. The race started in 14:08, how did Brendan Foster get dropped?

Really, you sound like one of those 16 year old letsrun crowd who has not appreciation of T&F. Or more precisely, one of those guys who never had a kick and just hates those guys who did. Especially hates those guys who have just as much endurance as you, but still have a kick.

I'm sorry you had no kick. I'm sorry you had no event which gave you a chance for olympic glory. That's life. It's not always fair.

The only one who sounds like a troll here is you, and, yes, the letsrun staff is being retarded. The only thing wrong with the 10k on the track is the amount of commercials. They should just show the whole thing live with no breaks.

But would a XC 10K (or 12K) with a team competition and individual medals be better than the track 10K as is?

get rid of the 10k and steeple

the olympics would go: marathon or 10k-12k cross country to start (right after the opening ceremonies with men and women reversed), track and field competition with 800-1500-5000 being the distance events, marathon or 10k-12k cross country to end the games (man and women reversed)

cross country should be european style (2k laps) with heavy emphasis on obstacles and terrain changes

emphasis should be on team (I'd be fine with no individual cross country medals)

the cross country race will quickly become the most popular distance event among the masses (not saying much but an improvement)

The Steeplechase is "supposed" to simulate XC with all the jumps. I think it's kind of like having an aluminum Christmas tree - just not quite the same.

So I'd suggest replacing the steeplechase (not 10K) with a real XC race, including obstacles. No more manicured golf-course racing. Bump the distance up, but don't make it a standard distance - that way, it's an individual race at every Olympics and there's no chasing records. Just pure racing on a tough course. Put cameras all along the route, keep an up-to-date scoring box along the bottom so you can see how the team tactics unfold in real time.

toro wrote:

It's not so much that the 10,000 is uninteresting, it's that the only viable way to get XC in the Olympics would be to replace the 10,000.

And an XC event would be more interesting than a track 10,000, especially if you still have a track 5000 race upcoming.

If you do a google search for Sports Illustrated World Cross Country, this is what you get:

The list of WXC results in SI? There isn't any. Ditto for ESPN and newspaper. Not only do sports fans not care, they don't even know it exists.

Likewise, show me the prospective entry list for the 10000 in Brussels this year. There is no such event. I don't believe any DL meet this year has a 10000.

Both events are being phased out in Europe. 5000 is probably next. Most people see these as really, really boring (unless your countryman is expected to win a gold medal, as with Farah in the 10000 in London). And frankly, if I want to see somebody with 12.9 speed, I'll watch a high school girls' event.

Get rid of them and replace them with a 600m (where maybe you could have Merritt and Rudisha racing).

toro wrote:

It's not so much that the 10,000 is uninteresting, it's that the only viable way to get XC in the Olympics would be to replace the 10,000.

And an XC event would be more interesting than a track 10,000, especially if you still have a track 5000 race upcoming.

Agreed. When I said the 10,000 was the least tv worthy, I meant in terms of viewership. For track fans, as blahblah correctly pointed out, the 10,000 has had some of the best Olympic races. But for non-track watchers, they're not going to sit through 25 laps, nor will the networks show it. They only want to see the last 4 laps at most.

XC needs to be *back* in the Olympics somehow. It was an Olympic sport in 1912 (Stockholm), 1920 (Antwerp), and 1924 (Paris).

And maybe it would help World Cross if it remained a biannual event, but put it on the even years so it's not the same year as WC, and let Olympic XC be world cross in Olympic years.

blahblah wrote:

I can't believe people have said the 10000m is the most unwatchable event in the Olympic program. What about racewalking?

Race walking needs to be removed, and not to make room for XC. But that's a whole other thread.

You guys are in denial. Certain sports like modern pentathlon are protected due to nepotism (there's a Samaranch involved). Nobody outside East Africa cares about XC these days, and if it needs to be added to the Olympics to be "saved," that's a pretty good description of why it won't be.

They're adding rugby and golf for 2016, and XC wasn't even on the list to be considered. The IOC wants more telangenic sports, and that is NOT 10K or XC.

If they want to run 10K or 12K, let them run in road races with the rest of the hobby joggers. But the rest of us should not have not watch them, nor should we have to sit through a marathon in order to see Bolt on TV, which happened in the USA in Beijing (I heard complaints from non-runners about the latter).

They can speed up elite track events a lot by getting rid of 5000, 10000, and really everything longer than a mile, as they're doing in Canada for the National Track League.

Money is ruining our sport. The lack of money used to be the problem. Even as late as 1985, there was no prize money for winning the Boston Marathon.

But now, athletes dodge each other to avoid missing out on prize money. Athletes avoid national and world competition to seek appearance fees. And Olympics sports are defined by what is telegenic. Even a core Olympic sport like wrestling has been cut.

Three decades ago, the lack of money was the problem. Now corporate and individual greed is ruining our sport. It's becoming more of a business than a sport.

WTF??? We're in denial?

Top 10 olympic events with the highest UK TV ratings:

1. Opening ceremony, 26.9 million (27 July)

2. Closing ceremony, 26.3 million (12 August)

3. Usain Bolt wins gold in the 100 metres final, 20 million (5 August)

4. Mo Farah, gold 10,000 metres final, 17.1 million (4 August)

5. Jessica Eniss seals the heptathlon with 800 metres win, 16.3 million (4 August)

6. Tom Daley takes bronze medal in the 10m platform diving final 15.9 million (11 August)

7. Greg Rutherford wins gold in the long jump, 15.6 million (4 August)

8. Usain Bolt wins gold in the 200 metres final, 15.4 million (9 August)

9. Mo Farah wins gold in the 5,000 metres, 12.9 million (11 August)

10. Sally Pearson takes gold for Australia in the 100m hurdles, 12.1 million (7 August)

The 5,000 and 10,000 are both in the top 10! (with the 5k being described by most as the loudest event of the games)

And don't tell me it's all because of Mo Farah. Great Britain won 29 gold medals in rowing, boxing, sailing, tennis, triathlon, and cleaned up in cycling with three multiple-gold medalists. Distance races are still prominent events at the Olympics.

This is a conversation among us about possibly swapping events.

You're going off on a tangent to reinvent the Games.

We do have other threads on that.

As others have said, the 10 000m has produced some of the best races in OG Track. Ask anyone who was at the stadium in Sydney, 2000 and saw Geb and Tergat's (2nd) epic duel what they think; the crowd arguably cheered harder, louder and longer than they did earlier that night for Cathy Freeman's 400m run, and certainly more than they did for Michael Johnson's 400m win the same night.

Bekele's 2008 run?

Dropping the 10 000m because you don't like it is silly; there are a whole host of folks around the world who like it. The beauty of the OG is that is has something for (virtually) everyone.

Adding XC might be cool, but more running events probably isn't the main priority of the IOC.

sad day for sport wrote:

Money is ruining our sport. The lack of money used to be the problem. Even as late as 1985, there was no prize money for winning the Boston Marathon.

But now, athletes dodge each other to avoid missing out on prize money. Athletes avoid national and world competition to seek appearance fees. And Olympics sports are defined by what is telegenic. Even a core Olympic sport like wrestling has been cut.

Three decades ago, the lack of money was the problem. Now corporate and individual greed is ruining our sport. It's becoming more of a business than a sport.

Greatest post ever.

However, money can also be the solution. Who other than a few endurance geeks would be interested in the Tour de France except that it has always gotten a ton of hype because of the sponsorship money behind it?

I think distance running has the opportunity to make a major comeback in the USA. With Kenyans bailing on the track for the the marathon, and the USA getting serious depth in every distance track event, the USA has the chance to begin to dominate there. With success comes more sponsorship dollars and when the dollars are there, the athletes will be thrust into the spotlight so the sponsors will see a return on their investment.

I also see the same kind of thing happening in cross country. Someone with major talent will pull an Evan Jager move and decide to focus on a weak event (cross country), knowing he is competing against C level Kenyans, and have a shot at becoming WXC champ. With dollars behind this person, they can hype him up like a badass extreme sports dude, etc. People don't really have to watch the actual event as long as the guy brings the hardware home so he has street cred in his commercials. Shawn White is a legendary badass but I can only recall seeing him compete on TV once (Vancouver Games) and most of the rest of his stuff I've only heard about as part of the Olympic hype-up. Most people in America know who Shawn White is. Ok, so snowboarding is more entertaining to watch (?), but even more people in America know who Lance Armstrong is and did that many people actually watch him on TV or just read about how he dominated? I know I never saw a single tour stage. Are people saying they can't sit through a single 10k once every 4 years but they can watch cycling every day for a couple weeks once a year?

Money and hype are what makes sports interesting. The average baseball game, NASCAR, etc are a snoozefest. Running once was (and could again be) interesting. I'm not betting that it will happen, but the potential is there.