German Account of Ryun's 3'38.2 in '67

'the ole dusseldorf track almost certainly had the 300m mark at start of the bend as along with the other ancient tracks'

You are just making things up now

said88 wrote:

Today I got the 1500m race from Düsseldorf in 1967 in pretty good quality on DVD.

Ryun's time at 1100m was around 2:47,7 and at 1200m around 3:01,6/3:01,7.

This means his last lap was around 50,5 and his last 300 around 36,5/36,6.

I don't know if any runner in history could have beaten Ryun on this day.

This seems fairly reasonable. Ryan was great. He had a great race. His last 300 was great. Enough said.

Are you going to put it on Youtube?

I would love to see the race. Perhaps one can buy a copy from you?

What was his last 800, 200, 100m?

Thanks.

Peer Mediator wrote:

Are you going to put it on Youtube?

I would love to see the race. Perhaps one can buy a copy from you?

What was his last 800, 200, 100m?

Thanks.

I'm not allowed to put it on YouTube and I definitely wil not do it.

But I will look for more intermediate times. Also last 100 (maybe last 200) could be a problem.

Ryun's performance definitely was Beamonesque - at least much better than what I have expected he was capable of.

For me it puts all the other performances from the all-time greats of the last decades in a new context.

Maybe things work differently in the UK--God knows your scholars in the field in which I work are extremely analytical, but extremely unimaginative--but since it was a 1500 meter race, it isn't exactly difficult to locate the start line, and when the runners pass by that start line during their last lap, there are 300 meters to go. Now, I don't know whether there was a start line--although it would be imbecilic if there weren't one--but even if not, it wouldn't be hard, if one pays just a little bit of attention, to see when the runners have passed by the place from which they began.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'the ole dusseldorf track almost certainly had the 300m mark at start of the bend as along with the other ancient tracks'

You are just making things up now

Why aren't you allowed to put it on youtube?? It is 46 years old man...no one is going to care about copyrights etc.

And if you're not going to put it in youtube could you at least tell us where you got the video from?

said88 wrote:

I'm not allowed to put it on YouTube and I definitely wil not do it.

But I will look for more intermediate times. Also last 100 (maybe last 200) could be a problem.

Ryun's performance definitely was Beamonesque - at least much better than what I have expected he was capable of.

For me it puts all the other performances from the all-time greats of the last decades in a new context.

You have the video that countless people have been arguing about in this thread and many more have wanted to see and you're not going to upload it to youtube???? Are you crazy????

i want to see it wrote:

Why aren't you allowed to put it on youtube?? It is 46 years old man...no one is going to care about copyrights etc.

And if you're not going to put it in youtube could you at least tell us where you got the video from?

I bought it from the German TV channel which has broadcast the race at the time. The contract which I did with them clearly includes that I'm not allowed to give it away in any sort.

Anybody who is heavily interested to see it - like I was - is free to contact me (thegreatdistancerunners.de). I can give all the necessary data to buy it by yourself.

Ryun's last 800m was around 1:50,5 - he did all the effort in the last 300m.

r u serious wrote:

You have the video that countless people have been arguing about in this thread and many more have wanted to see and you're not going to upload it to youtube???? Are you crazy????

I paid a lot of money for it. I did a lot of effort to get it. I'm not allowed to put it in YouTube.

And still I'm not going to put it in YouTube? Although this would be in your favour? And after you have asked so friendly?

I also want to ask you something: are you an US american?

I know this must sound little bit racistic, but I really got the feeling that americans more than people from other countries have the thinking that others HAVE to do what is in their favour. Maybe I'm totally wrong in this, but at least letsrun sometimes gives this impression.

said88 wrote:

i want to see it wrote:

Why aren't you allowed to put it on youtube?? It is 46 years old man...no one is going to care about copyrights etc.

And if you're not going to put it in youtube could you at least tell us where you got the video from?

I bought it from the German TV channel which has broadcast the race at the time. The contract which I did with them clearly includes that I'm not allowed to give it away in any sort.

Anybody who is heavily interested to see it - like I was - is free to contact me (thegreatdistancerunners.de). I can give all the necessary data to buy it by yourself.

Ryun's last 800m was around 1:50,5 - he did all the effort in the last 300m.

Hi Said88,

Thanks a lot for posting all the splits. I was going to ask you the same thing as Peer Mediator, but I completely understand why you are not putting it on Youtube.

My friend in the US who has also seen the race (though he doesn't know how the quality compares with yours) contacted me to let me know you had posted the splits! LOL. He said the last 300 was 37.1, but said he timed it manually as he passed the 300m mark.

The 1:50.5 last 800 is interesting, meaning that the penultimate lap was a pretty slow 60 flat. With that in mind, it makes Ryun's last 400 not quite so incredible, although the last 300 split was obviously out of this world.

All Ryun's most impressive runs seem to come where he went off relatively slowly and then really went for it over the last lap (e.g his 3:33.1) .

Maybe he was really great in those types of races, and maybe a fast pace from the outset wouldn't have suited him as much. I can't recall him ever going through 800 in 1:53/1:54, so it's a hard one to call. I know I will get a tirade of abuse from Ventolin, but some athletes suit a particular way a run is raced.

What is more impressive, a 1:46.9 last 800 in a 3:34.1 or

a last 300 in 36.6 off a last 400 of 50.5 in a 3:38.2?

Both are highly impressive but very different types of races.

Btw, I will contact you via your website in the near future, as I have some races you might be interested in.

Montesquieu wrote:

Maybe things work differently in the UK--God knows your scholars in the field in which I work are extremely analytical, but extremely unimaginative--but since it was a 1500 meter race, it isn't exactly difficult to locate the start line, and when the runners pass by that start line during their last lap, there are 300 meters to go. Now, I don't know whether there was a start line--although it would be imbecilic if there weren't one--but even if not, it wouldn't be hard, if one pays just a little bit of attention, to see when the runners have passed by the place from which they began.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'the ole dusseldorf track almost certainly had the 300m mark at start of the bend as along with the other ancient tracks'

You are just making things up now

I know where the start line is its approx the same position on every track at the end not the start of the bend.

My point is you cannot get an accurate reading stood at one point in the stadium you need the time taken at the 300m point and at the end to be accurate

I doubt very much on some old video you can see the 300m point/line accurately enough to measure the time from there either.

said88 wrote:

r u serious wrote:

You have the video that countless people have been arguing about in this thread and many more have wanted to see and you're not going to upload it to youtube???? Are you crazy????

I paid a lot of money for it. I did a lot of effort to get it. I'm not allowed to put it in YouTube.

And still I'm not going to put it in YouTube? Although this would be in your favour? And after you have asked so friendly?

I also want to ask you something: are you an US american?

I know this must sound little bit racistic, but I really got the feeling that americans more than people from other countries have the thinking that others HAVE to do what is in their favour. Maybe I'm totally wrong in this, but at least letsrun sometimes gives this impression.

Said88, you're such a douche...

Seriously, you really think the people you bought it from would care if you put it on Youtube? Why are you so selfish?

Is it really hurting you to put a video on Youtube? Why wouldn't you share a video with other running fans to enjoy?

You're just going to hog a video to yourself for what? What do you lose from putting it on Youtube? What do you gain by keeping it to yourself?

You realize if you put it on Youtube and it gets enough views, they'll put ads on it and you could make money, right?

If it's so important to you, why don't you purchase your own copy? He doesn't owe you or anybody else for that matter anything with respect to posting it on Youtube.

Probably equally impressive is Filbert Byia went out in 51x in a 1500 and finished the race respectfully.

Deanouk wrote:All Ryun's most impressive runs seem to come where he went off relatively slowly and then really went for it over the last lap (e.g his 3:33.1)

get a clue

there weren't any pacers in his big races to take him thru in 56s/lap to the bell

this was a tactical race where the germans wanted to test their vaunted sprints against his

Maybe he was really great in those types of races, and maybe a fast pace from the outset wouldn't have suited him as much. I can't recall him ever going through 800 in 1:53/1:54, so it's a hard one to call. I know I will get a tirade of abuse from Ventolin, but some athletes suit a particular way a run is raced

posting utter nonsense will get you vitriol

can't your brain recall he ran 800wr of 1'44.3 !!!

does even your brain need telling that running a 800wr automatically means no one can ever question your ability to run at sustained speed when it is given that 1500 is your best event ???

learn

the fastest 800 split in history upto '68 was keino's 1'56+ in the 3'33.1wr race

they didn't have pacers to take them thru in 1'53/1'54

no one in history had split faster than 1'56 because they didn't use pacers to any great extent, if it all apart from some of the brits, notably chataway pacing bannister

it says in race reports that norpoth was "blocking" him from bell to 1200m, requiring ryun to run wide to pass him & tummler to unleash his full sprint

the reports say he was out at worst in lane 2 & maybe even in lane 3 when he started his sprint

can you check this ?

if anywhere true, it means he ran considerable extra distance on the last lap

( full lane 2 running on a bend adds nearly 4m from

pi * distance wide of lane 1

each lane being ~ 1.2m wide )

you've seen enough races live/tv/satellite/vid/dvd

what do you think ryun was capable of on a synthetic track, good weather & even-pacing to the bell ( you will have to decide if that pacing woud be 57 or 56 or 55... ) ?

as an aside, his coach reckoned he might have ultimately been a better 800 guy than a 1500 ( obviously meaning if he'd stayed healthy & run more 800s )

any thoughts on his 800 ?

Deanouk wrote:The 1:50.5 last 800 is interesting, meaning that the penultimate lap was a pretty slow 60 flat. With that in mind, it makes Ryun's last 400 not quite so incredible

nonsense

it's stated that his 1'50.5 was all done in the last 300m

& on a dirt track

pretty damn obvious if he'd started a controlled sprint from 800 out he couda expected helluva lot better than 1'50.5 finish

a severe underestimate ( not accounting for "lost" time in slow 700 - 1100 ) :

1'50.5 with a 36.5 finish ->

74.0/36.5 -> 154236 + 166574 = 320810u

->1'48.4

for an even pace last 800 & that is a significant underestimate as unenforced slow laps must cost in region of a coupla secs thrown away when going 60s when 56s are expected - time which can't be recouped in a last 300 or 400

at very, very slowest, he was entitled from physics to a

3'36.1 with a 1'48.4 finish ( with last 800 at even pace )

( & you coud probably take ~ 2s off both for the "lost" time in the unenforced slow lap )

maybe as fast as

3'34-low with a 1'46-mid finish ( with last 800 at even pace )

& like i said, on a dirt track with wide running 1100 - 1200

Fwapper wrote:

Optimus wrote:

Said88, you're such a douche...

Seriously, you really think the people you bought it from would care if you put it on Youtube? Why are you so selfish?

Is it really hurting you to put a video on Youtube? Why wouldn't you share a video with other running fans to enjoy?

You're just going to hog a video to yourself for what? What do you lose from putting it on Youtube? What do you gain by keeping it to yourself?

You realize if you put it on Youtube and it gets enough views, they'll put ads on it and you could make money, right?

If it's so important to you, why don't you purchase your own copy? He doesn't owe you or anybody else for that matter anything with respect to posting it on Youtube.

I didn't say he owed anyone anything. I just don't understand why he wouldn't do it. What does he gain by not putting it on Youtube? Again they could put ads on it. Why be so selfish about it.

"I could share this with thousands of fellow running fans, potentially make more money of it than I would hording it, and just sit on it for years with no reason, but... MINE MINE MINE." - Said88 paraphrased

Optimus wrote:

Said88, you're such a douche...

Seriously, you really think the people you bought it from would care if you put it on Youtube? Why are you so selfish?

Is it really hurting you to put a video on Youtube? Why wouldn't you share a video with other running fans to enjoy?

You're just going to hog a video to yourself for what? What do you lose from putting it on Youtube? What do you gain by keeping it to yourself?

You realize if you put it on Youtube and it gets enough views, they'll put ads on it and you could make money, right?

Hi Optimus!

I'm a WHAT?

One question to you (and another one which you can read in a previous post of mine to some of your friends): Why are YOU not putting the video in YouTube? Because you don't have it? Well, maybe you think that the video was falling from the sky to me? But I tell you: it wasn't. You can invest the same time and money to get it. Than you are free to put the video in YouTube.

Nice try because of the money: but I have to disappoint you, I never want to get money because of some advertisement.

So, at the moment it seems you really have to do more than a click in YouTube if you want to see the race.