HRM's & Such

I'm guessing by a "few years ago" you mean you tried a HRM like MANY yrs ago. They work pretty well now to acurately tell you what your heart rate is- no banging, tapping, or wetting of nodes necessary. I think the problem is more actually correctly interpreting the numbers to aid in training.

I do think a HRM can aid inexperienced runners... not so sure if they are of useful for the more experienced, the catagory most of you probably fit into.

1. Slow plodding? When you are running those 10 milers at 6 min. pace with the same effort you were running them at 7 min pace (when you began this buildup) you will be capable of holding your top end speed much longer. That is when you are fit to get race fit.

You will be capable of much better quality track workouts and you will be like a caged animal when you finaly do hit the track. So give it a try, but have patience that is the "fool proof method"

2. do strides every other day, 100-200m on a slight incline one day, slight downhill the next time. Run some undulating courses and work the hills a bit.

Let the tempo/fartlek come to you, no need to force the pace unless you are up for it.

The marathon is a tricky beast - running it well requires

getting a lot of things right besides just pace. Your

problems could just as easily have been due to how you

tapered and ate in the week prior to the race (i.e. were

your glycogen stores maximized on race day), or to

your carbohydrate and/or fluid intake during the race,

or to your specific preperation for the marathon you

ran (the Cape Cod course, while not brutally hard, is not

an easy course and is certainly not the place one would

go to run your fastest marathon).

From my experience, heart-rate in the early miles of

a marathon is the least useful piece of information.

The sheer excitement and andrenaline rush from being

in the race can crank the HR way up without having any

bearing on how hard or easy the pace is (in fact if the

pace feels easy, it makes it easier to get yourself

mentally charged up). Try lying down, getting completely

relaxed for a few minutes and taking your resting HR.

Now, without moving a muscle, visualize yourself running

the race in which you ran your best PR - the thrill of

the day, the feel of passing competitors and the agonizing

push to the finish line. Take your HR while doing this.

If you are at all succesful at your visualization, your

HR will have easily doubled or tripled while your are

still lying down flat on your back. The same effect

can happen in a race.

Slightly off topic, but:

Given the choice between a HRM and a running partner to keep my easy days easy, I'll take the partner everytime.

The only time I've considered going the HRM route (which happens to be the present) is when I'm significantly out of shape but catch myself running at my easy pace from when I was fit. I do tire too fast and can't go as far. This seems to be a variation on the "HRM for beginners" theory, in that I need to relearn what my easy pace is. But I'd rather just have a bud next to me to point out when we're going too fast.

Thanks for the response, Hodgie. Sounds like good stuff.

Hodgie-san wrote:

My original post is offered as a "suggestion". I was just curious about who uses the HRM & why.

Your original post was designed to showcase your feeling that there is no need for anyone to wear pulse monitors.

Then comes the hypocritical backpedaling denying you meant any harm.

Or maybe you have Alzheimers and can't remember what you wrote or why.

"a guest" who cannot be pleased.

Obviously & redundantly there is no need for anyone to wear the HRM.

I do not view my opinion on the matter as harmful.

I'm 48 years old and I know what I know.

guest,

I'm still waiting for you to say something interesting other than to tell me how pre-historic I am.

Interesting is a matter of taste.

As far as reading, perhaps someone can read it to you if you're doing the elderly denial of eyesight loss thing.

idealist wrote:

Slightly off topic, but:

Given the choice between a HRM and a running partner to keep my easy days easy, I'll take the partner everytime.

The only time I've considered going the HRM route (which happens to be the present) is when I'm significantly out of shape but catch myself running at my easy pace from when I was fit. I do tire too fast and can't go as far. This seems to be a variation on the "HRM for beginners" theory, in that I need to relearn what my easy pace is. But I'd rather just have a bud next to me to point out when we're going too fast.

I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure a partner would help you unless he/she was incredibly disciplined.

Think about the times that you would had bagged a run due to cold/rain/heat/whatever, but you showed up because you knew your partner would be there. Your partner probably showed as well because neither of you wanted to give the impression that you were a wuss.

I believe the same thing could happen in regards to the pace. If you're competitive like most of the people on this board, you'd probably suck up and run whatever pace for that day because you (or he) wouldn't want to be the "wuss" that says, "Hey, we're running too fast."

By no means am I attempting to slam you, I'm just viewing your idea from the perspective of a competitive runner's mindset. If you have a partner that is disciplined enough to keep things under control, you're way ahead of the game.

No slam taken. But my perspective was a bit different.

Namely, I was (am?) a competitive but not particularly talented runner. And I saw two types of "groups" that I would run with. The first was like your example - if anyone felt good and hammered, they all hammered. And never improved. The second was a bunch of former All-Americans - and on their easy days, they ran slower than I did (although they could run circles around me in intervals). They wouldn't hesitate to slow me down, even if they had to pull me back by my shirttail. I guess I had the latter group in mind.

I'm at my worst when I'm alone - with no one to converse with, I drop the pace to where the effort oocupies my mind.

Your "competitive" runner who does whatever pace it takes to look good to the others isn't competitive, just insecure.

Make take on HRMs:

For novices and people who have trouble understanding their bodies -- great tool.

For elite runners such as Marius, probably a good tool when you are pushing the envelope or staying on the edge for maximum benefit.

For most runners, though, a HRM basically tells you that you are pushing too hard on easy/rest days and it tells you that you need to push harder or more consistently on your difficult days.

idealist wrote:

Namely, I was (am?) a competitive but not particularly talented runner. And I saw two types of "groups" that I would run with. The first was like your example - if anyone felt good and hammered, they all hammered. And never improved. The second was a bunch of former All-Americans - and on their easy days, they ran slower than I did (although they could run circles around me in intervals). They wouldn't hesitate to slow me down, even if they had to pull me back by my shirttail. I guess I had the latter group in mind.

I'm at my worst when I'm alone - with no one to converse with, I drop the pace to where the effort oocupies my mind.

Your "competitive" runner who does whatever pace it takes to look good to the others isn't competitive, just insecure.

You're fortunate to have that 2nd group. I tend to see more of the first group. I'm sure that everyone here could name names of people who had to "win" every workout and created situations where everyone was running harder than they should have.

I'm also at my worst when I'm alone, and that's part of the reason I switched to running by time. If I had a 10-miler scheduled, it was "let's get this thing over with," and I would run it pretty hard. Since I'm running by time, that second hand won't move any faster if I speed up, so there's less incentive to race through a workout.

I also agree with observation in the third paragraph.

Last April I ran a 15K road race and the grand prize was a heart rate monitor. Although I had never used one I felt that they were not needed. I won the monitor! So the next day I wore it on both runs. I put it back in the box and have not touched it since. It did not tell me anything that I couldn't figure out based on effort. Running is so simple and all the monitor did was overcomplicate it. I like to do the bulk of my training at what I call a relaxed pace. Sometimes that is 9:00 pace, sometimes 6:00 pace. It's all about effort. Steve Jones said that it's the effort on the hard days that counts. John Ngugi said "don't waste good time" if you feel like running hard then go hard!

Remember the best way to not overtrain and get injured is to keep your ass on the sofa, your heart rate should stay below 60.

Good luck....

P.S. e-mail me if you want my HRM. You can have it for the cost of shipping and a 12 pack of PBR

runningart how about you have yourself a hotsteamycupofshutthef***up? Try that for shits and giggles next time you have a thought and feel the need to spew it.

Dude you should be incredibly indebted to guys like Hodgie, Malmo, Hadd, ET, JK & all of the other oldsters that lurk & post here. How can you pass up the advice of a guy(s) who ran 2:10:59(Hodgie) & 1:01,8:21/SC(Malmo)? Hadd, ET & JK have also given their time, energy & EDUCATION to this forum & all you have to say is bullshit to them? God the insanity of it all!

PS: Fuckyoumotherf***erdon'tcomebackyouhear?