I consider Geb the greatest of all time and Wanjiru's race that day the greatest marathon ever run. No way Geb beats him - Geb was capable of a medal (not Gold) but a DNF would've been much more likely.
I wonder what Geb could've run the marathon in had he trained for it when he was younger. His running prime was mid-late 90s not 2008.
GoldenMile wrote:
.....I know '08 was a bit past Kenny B's prime,.....
2008 was not past KB's prime. He ran 26:25 that year for 10,000m in windy conditions, and in mid-season before his peak, so he was clearly on the same level he was on in 2004/2005 as far as times are concerned. And 2008 was easily his best track performances of his career. His 10,000m victory in Bejing was pretty standard, but his 5000m victory was simply magnificent. That extra 3 years of training made him stronger, and smarter.
And if that doesn't convince you, think about this: could 2004/2005 Bekele have done what 2008 Bekele did in the Bejing 5000m, closing the last 3k in 7:35, 2k in 4:56, mile in 3:57, and lap in 53.87, while doing all the pacemaking himself? I don't think so.
The Master Troll wrote:
GoldenMile wrote:.....I know '08 was a bit past Kenny B's prime,.....
2008 was not past KB's prime. He ran 26:25 that year for 10,000m in windy conditions, and in mid-season before his peak, so he was clearly on the same level he was on in 2004/2005 as far as times are concerned. And 2008 was easily his best track performances of his career. His 10,000m victory in Bejing was pretty standard, but his 5000m victory was simply magnificent. That extra 3 years of training made him stronger, and smarter.
And if that doesn't convince you, think about this: could 2004/2005 Bekele have done what 2008 Bekele did in the Bejing 5000m, closing the last 3k in 7:35, 2k in 4:56, mile in 3:57, and lap in 53.87, while doing all the pacemaking himself? I don't think so.
Well, according to this, it seems almost impossible to believe that Wanjiru could've beaten Bekele over the 10K that year. God bless Bekele.
The Master Troll wrote:And if that doesn't convince you, think about this: could 2004/2005 Bekele have done what 2008 Bekele did in the Bejing 5000m, closing the last 3k in 7:35, 2k in 4:56, mile in 3:57, and lap in 53.87, while doing all the pacemaking himself? I don't think so.
no
get a grip
it was a 12'57 race not 12'37
rudy ran 1'40.91wr solo
kennster in ~ 5k wr shape that day (?) , but he basically ran 7'35 off a 2k jog
don't aggrandize
that peking 5k was unfortunate in bernie being injured before ( i saw '04 final in stadium - bernie luvs heat/humdity )
the kenyans had better 5k guys here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rHmSKqs2wventolin^3 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rHmSKqs2w
i was in stadium - in grandstand
it was 90 - 95 that late-afternoon
little humidity
i wasn't in peking, but there is small chance it was hotter there
bernie's run is little different from kennster's gold in temperature terms
the race above was 90+ heat
ventolin^3 wrote:
The Master Troll wrote:And if that doesn't convince you, think about this: could 2004/2005 Bekele have done what 2008 Bekele did in the Bejing 5000m, closing the last 3k in 7:35, 2k in 4:56, mile in 3:57, and lap in 53.87, while doing all the pacemaking himself? I don't think so.no
get a grip
it was a 12'57 race not 12'37
rudy ran 1'40.91wr solo
kennster in ~ 5k wr shape that day (?) , but he basically ran 7'35 off a 2k jog
don't aggrandize
that peking 5k was unfortunate in bernie being injured before ( i saw '04 final in stadium - bernie luvs heat/humdity )
the kenyans had better 5k guys here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rHmSKqs2w
12:57 is a pretty incredible time given the slow early pace of the first 3000m (8:00), cause he had to run super fast to get under 13:00 the last 5 laps. And the magnificence comes from how strung out everyone was by the finish. Even Kipchoge, who remember outkicked El G and Bekele in a fast paced race 5 years prior, wasn't even able to finish close to Bekele, as he was 5 seconds back.
No one here is saying Lagat isn't a great racer at 5000m, but remember that then his specialty was 1500m, and his training was focused for the 1500m. It wasn't until 2010 that he changed his training to focus on the 5000m. And remember Berlin in 2009. Lagat was healthy, Bekele was actually a little off form, but Bekele still prevailed.
If Lagat had been healthy in 2008, I imagine he would have hung in there for a medal at least. But to challenge for the gold would have taken the race of his life, or something very close.
The real tragedy is Lagat getting injured and not winning gold in the 1500m. He should have won that. Cheater Ramzi shouldn't have been on the podium, and Kiprop wasn't quite as good as Lagat was then.