Do people here really think the best elite distance runners can sprint 11 flat for 100m?

coach d wrote:

Distance fans keep trying to make ridiculous claims that elite distance runners are actually fast. They're not. That's why they're distance runners, who are trained not to go fast by sprinting standards but to maintain for a long time.

Actually, they are fast. The reason why they're distance runners and not sprtinters is not that they're slow as slow people would not succeed in any kind of running. It's just that they're not as fast as those who are the best at sprinting.

Think about most MLB knuckleball pitchers. You might say they can't throw a good fastball and that's why they throw the kball. And if you compare their top speed to the better MLB fastball pitchers who throw say 95-98mph, yes they are slower. But they can typically still throw 88-92 if they throw all out, which is faster than 99.99% of the population. Similar thing with wc distance runners and their ability to sprint.

This guy has solid PRs, even if he's not elite:

Personal Bests

100m- 12.1 (1996)

200m- 24.3 (1996)

400m- 51.7 (1998)

600m- 1:23.13i (1998)

800m- 1:56.09 (1998)

1000m- 2:28.09i (2003)

1500m- 3:53.18 (2002) 1

mile- 4:05.26i (2002)

3000m- 8:05.40i (2003)

5000m- 14:20.6 (2010)

8k- 23:51 (2002) XC

10,000m- 29:53 (2010)

I have to think that if he ran 12.0, 24.1 as a high-school sophomore, he could have scared 11-flat by the time he was finishing college seven years later and running the mile indoors in 4:05.

Timed wrote:

Go back and learn basic high school sports science before engaging in this debate.

You took sport science in high school? Lucky you.

And yes, I would put my life savings in a bet on the average HS sprinter against any elite distance runner.

======================================================

Oh you would??? You need to be careful about your bets. The average HS sprinter is FAR from 11 flat!! According to milsplit, about 1600 HS boy sprinters broke 11. And guess what, there are over 161,000 HS sprinters. 11 flat puts you at the top 1%. The average HS sprinter is slower than 12 sec.

My guess is that there are some elite distance runners who have sub 11 speed. But probably not most.

paper bag math for sub 11 in a standard 100m race.

Let's say the distance guy and the sprint guy both get to 30 metepaper rs in 4.00 seconds.

To go 11.00 distanceguy needs to cover the 70m in 7 seconds or 1.0 sec per 10m or about 10 sec for a flying 100..

On average the sprintguys go ~0.85 for those to 70m.

If you think the 0.85 to 1.0 ratio is possible you just have to figute out how to get your distance guy out of the blocks and to 30m with-in a couple of hundreds of Assafa

http://speedendurance.com/2008/08/22/usain-bolt-100m-10-meter-splits-and-speed-endurance/

10kmWR wrote:

When Bekele broke the WR in the 10,000m, he ran the last 100m in 10.x seconds.

Given that, I figure that the majority of world class 5k and 10k runners would be able to run around 11 seconds for 100m.

He ran 13 for the final 100 and 26 for the final 200. His fastest ever in any 100 section of any race is 12.5

In high school I did a decathlon senior year. 12.2x out of the blocks for the 100. 50.91 for the 400. Same day.

This leads me to the conclusion that anyone who can run sub-50 - which is every world class 800 or 1500 guy, and probably half of the 5k guys - can run sub-12 from blocks.

Now getting down to 11.00? That's serious wheels. I think you'd have to be approaching mid-47 and under for 400. So the 800 guys can hit it, maybe a handful of 1500 guys, but I think that's it.

So actually I am going to agree with the OP given these specific conditions - it's 11.00 from blocks, and the person's primary race is 5k and up (think Rupp, Farah, etc.) I don't think anyone world class could do it.

The comment about sub-13 was laughable though. Come on OP, you're better than that.

Most of your post was sensible. Except this :

So if you're a (middle) distance runner and you can run mid-47 you'd automatically be able to run 11.00? You serious?? There'd be very few if any elite 800 guys that could run 11.00. Rudisha maybe. Struggle to think of anyone else.

Sprinters on the other hand. Yes if you're a sprinter and 47 mid to low, you should be able to go 11.00 or very close to it. But they're not elite distance runners and never will be, so aren't relevant to the discussion.

I've known two sub-elite (1.48) 800m guys who've actually run some properly timed sprint races. One could go 47.6 for the 400m and managed to do a 22.6? 200m, the other was 48.x and was 11.72 for 100m.

I'd be very happy for someone to actually provide some evidence of an elite distance guy ever running a properly timed 100m out of blocks and coming close to 11.00. But there's been none whatsoever.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary it's safe to say there's not a single elite 1500m+ runner that could do it and no more than a handful of elite 800m runners. I'd bet my (and Lance Armstrong's) right testicle on that.

2012xxx wrote:

Obviously Rudisha with a 45.5 400m could go sub-11 and probably sub-10.5.

Rudisha sub-10.5?!!!!! Best line of the thread. Pure genius.

I never thought I'd see the equal of :

Bernard Lagat and Mo Farah could

in the delusional stakes, but you have put daylight between you and that one my friend.

Bravo.

That one was so bad it almost hid the other rubbish like:

Think about it - pretty much anyone you know that has run sub-48 has also run sub-11. Hell, I know a few 49 and 50 guys who can run sub-11.

That makes as much sense as me saying I'd be quicker than 1.41.73 over 800m because my 400m PB is faster than Coe's. We're different athletes, I'm a sprinter, he's a middle distance runner. Just because we're the same level at an intermediate distance doesn't mean we would be at the ends of the spectrum.

Speaking of Coe, no idea where you got 46.1 400m PB from. He has a best recorded time of 46.87s for a FAT, out of blocks 400m.

He did have a 45.5 relay leg. But hand-time, flying start, approximate distance relay splits are not equivalent to FAT, out of blocks, exact distance times, so can't be compared. These aren't like 4x1600m splits where it doesn't matter if you're a second or so out. 1s over 400m is a lot.

Coe ran a 45.5 relay leg (Wikipedia), equivalent to a 100m in 10:45 (McMillan)

Rudisha ran 45.5 for a full 400m.

Also, you're not defining "1500m+guy" by saying "excel". What time is considered excelling?

Given the conversation is about elite distance runners I'd say "excelling" at 1500m+ would be pretty self explanatory, i.e. you're at an elite level at a distance of 1500m or more.

What do I consider elite? Olympic qualifying level's probably fair.

rferf wrote:

You don't think that it's "conceivable" that guys who can run 400m in 45-46 seconds can run a 100m in under 11 seconds? Maybe YOU are the comedy gold.

Ok couple of things.

1. I'm talking about distance runners here. Sprinters who can run 45-46s are obviously going to have sub-11s speed. But at the same time they're never going to run a 3:35 1500m, so don't see any relevance to the thread.

And

2. Why do you keep mentioning 45-46s 400m as if that's a realistic time for any of the elite distance runners.

How many distance runners can run 45s for 400m? I can see one, Rudisha, and he's not an elite 1500m runner. He's a 4/8 guy.

There wouldn't be a single elite 1500m runner capable of much better than 46.5.

So forget about all this 45-46s 400m talk.

There wouldn't be a single elite 1500m runner capable of much better than 46.5.

So forget about all this 45-46s 400m talk.

Coe?

W.T.F? wrote:

There wouldn't be a single elite 1500m runner capable of much better than 46.5.

So forget about all this 45-46s 400m talk.

Coe?

8/15 guy. Yep.

Didn't Alan Webb once run a 11-mid in the middle of a 1500? I think he'd have the wheels to scare 11, and he also ran 27:34 in his only 10k.

Azaleas wrote:

Didn't Alan Webb once run a 11-mid in the middle of a 1500? I think he'd have the wheels to scare 11, and he also ran 27:34 in his only 10k.

So you're taken a hand-timed, flying start, inaccurately measured split and saying he could do 11.00s FAT out of blocks. Yep great point.

Randy Oldman wrote:

Coe ran a 45.5 relay leg (Wikipedia), equivalent to a 100m in 10:45 (McMillan)

Rudisha ran 45.5 for a full 400m.

Now we're using relay splits and McMillan tables to get Coe's 100m speed?

Dude, seriously??

Once again, LOL at all of this.

I can't believe the interest in this subject.

Given that the interest just WILL NOT DIE, I think it incumbent upon the IAAF, or some national federation, to either require or strongly recommend that sponsored/paid athletes do exhibition runs at different distances.

Yes, I know the potential for injury exists, but realistically, almost no elite will go to the point of injuring themselves in anything other than their native event. However, I think they would still have the competitive drive, and the playing field would be equal, making for a good race.

I desperately want to see a bunch of 100m elites compete at 1500m, and a bunch of 5k/10k guys compete at 100m. Why the hell not? Athletics is predicated on entertainment, and what better entertainment would there be? Lighthearted, interesting, fun, not too long.

The Diamond League could get this started if they wanted to, since there is no other big-money option for T&F. Make it a condition of participation. Put butts in the seats, especially in North America.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I think it incumbent upon the IAAF, or some national federation, to either require or strongly recommend that sponsored/paid athletes do exhibition runs at different distances.

Right, just to "settle" Internet message-board arguments, Reese Hoffa should have to run a 10,000 in spikes and Asbel Kiprop should have to pole-vault a few times. Brilliant.

Sweet Stinkflesh wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I think it incumbent upon the IAAF, or some national federation, to either require or strongly recommend that sponsored/paid athletes do exhibition runs at different distances.

Right, just to "settle" Internet message-board arguments, Reese Hoffa should have to run a 10,000 in spikes and Asbel Kiprop should have to pole-vault a few times. Brilliant.

It's not just to settle message-board arguments.

Like I said, it is all about entertainment. We all want to see the best do what they do best, but it is also entertaining to see them do something else, as well, at which they aren't so good.

Hence, Dancing with the Stars, etc.

We could have the best of both worlds, if done right.

And I gave 2 specific examples, that are realistic. Hoffa walking a 10k in spikes in a couple of hours and Kiprop trying to hoist a pole are, clearly, not realistic as entertainment events.

Well, Kiprop trying to lift a pole would be pretty funny, come to think of it.

As far as the field guys go, I would love to see some SP's try HJ, or PV using a telephone pole.

It's all about entertaining people in the stands.

Distance guys doing a 100m would be great anywhere, any time.

100m guys doing a 1500m--the dynamic would be great to watch. Guys going out hard and then slowing to just about a walk, the finishing sprint...

If the Deca 1500 is endurable, an elite 100m 1500 would be downright enjoyable.