base training

Tinman, what do you think of the competitive-season training of 5K runner Ryan Bak? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I've just noticed that his training involves two long runs a week, and several other 12+ milers even when in the midst of the racing season.

http://www.run-insight.com/journals-track04-bak22.html

I've tried to pick a fairly typical week. His entire training log since last october or so is on that site. Thanks!

bump

i'm not tinman, but i've gotta add bak's log is very impressive. you're right bukowski, hes being doing pretty much the same thing since october. i've been following his training since that time, and he rarely takes a day off, runs 20 miles every sunday or after a race, runs a medium long run on wednesday, and has run one threshold a week when not racing and two track workouts during the racing season.

he's awefully consistent and probably will be one of the better 5000 runners for the 2008 OT. the thing about ryan though, he's built up to this type of workload since a frosh in college. there was a great article about him while he attended trinity college and it explained his steady improvement, dedication to sport (transition from soccer to full-time running), and revealed his unassumed talent.

watch for his interview soon on my website.

[quote]caught in the flag wrote:

dude, if you can't do 22 miles at 6:48 pace, then you are SORELY under-developed aerobically. i'm not even a sub-16 5ker (well, i think i could do that right now, just haven't raced) and i can do 6:20s for 22 miles.

man, i'd love to be sub-15/sub-31... [quote]

what pace did you do the mormon lake half in???

i need more advice. pls help me

First off, your long runs shouldn't feel extremely long. After about an hour & a half you should be in an absolute zone & the rest should come easy. So from that, you should probably back off a bit.... this is hard when you have big goals & want to set the course on fire, but in the long run it'll save you. As Malmo said, I think it would be beneficial to stick to long runs of around 16 miles. Heck, even cutting back to a long run of 2 hrs or less would be good. I read that Ritz ran 18 milers regularly at 5:20 pace in highschool (thats about 1 hr & 45 minutes)... if that was his long run, do you think you need to do more?

With the amount of work you're putting in you should also be running hills once a week & accellerations a good 3 times a week. It is good to hear there is a highschooler as motivated as you & the only thing I have left to say is shoot for the stars. From you're posts, you obviously want to break 16. Most teams have a time trial at the beginning of the year.... so that'll be a good indication of what's to come. You'll probably be rusty, but with all the hard work you've put in during the summer you should only get faster. As others have said though, you can put in all the miles you want, but if you can't run balls out, it won't matter. So when you're racing just remember that... prove to everyone else on the course & watching who did all the work during the summer & don't let yourself down.

olu u retard, just go out and run what the hell you want.. listen to your body..

Bukowski wrote:

I've tried to pick a fairly typical week. His entire training log since last october or so is on that site. Thanks!

Baks's log shows a lack of coaching discipline from Sev. Bak is training way to hard for the level of a runner he is (PR of 3:44).

A lesson to all you youngsters. There are no awards for winning workouts.

ulo-

This is my advice. Just keep at it, don't worry about milage and numbers, as long as your running consistently every day, and twice daily, if you want too.

As for pace, and heart rate, these can be helpful too, but really just listen to how you feel. If you can run 10miles in under 60 during a workout, you must be pretty fit for a high schooler. Similar to myself leading up to my senior year. You will do well- don't worry.

I must agree with Malmo, and some of the others. Running 20+ miles, even 17+ miles, is probably going to hurt more than help. I know from experience as well. I've run 26:21 for 8km on the roads, and I'm just 19, probably only a few yrs older than you. and this was just off of a couple months of aerobic running, all at a pace I felt comfortable at (usually right around 7). I ran faster when I felt good, and slower when I felt not so good. But I ran, almost every single day. My milage? It was between 50 and 80 for about 4 straight months- again like I said, nothing but aerobic running- no intervals, no races (well just one prior to the 8km- which I will say is not spectacular, but respectable for someone of my age)

Some Weeks I would experiment with longer runs. And like some of the previous posters- I tend to agree that the long long runs just wear you out. Physically, your body uses alot of fuel and energy, and plus your legs feel shott afterwards, you are quite spent from the effort. In those 4 months, I did probably 5-6 17 milers, 2-3 20 milers, and one run I remember being 22 or 23 miles. These were over relitavely flat courses-measured- and just over/under 7:00/mile. To be 100% honest, genrally after about 2hrs of running, even 1hr 45, The last part I did not look forward too. It took quite an effort to finish- I was not comfortable. but up until that point- I felt like I coudl do anything. I found that from the 13-15 mile runs I felt much better afterwards, my legs recovered more easly. sure 18-22 will make you tough, mentally. You feel very confident having finished one of those.

Try 2- 13-15 mile runs each week, as opposed to 20-22.

Don't worry about your times- they will come. I'm sure you are capable to run in the 1530's or faster come cross country. Maybe faster. But if you don't, then don't be disapointed. Running takes time. Alot of time. No shorcuts.

And I'm not trying to preach Malmo, but you should really consider what he has to say. He is after all a former AR holder, and has loads of experience at this stuff. You sound serious- that means you are 50% there, you already have an edge on most of your competitors.

thank u very much for this great advice. i have to say that out of all this post, ur advice is the most polite and helpful advice, and i will take it into consideration. thank u very much

can u pls give me a schedule, today i am suppose to do 22 miles, but i did 90 mins at 6:36 pace.

olu wrote:

can u pls give me a schedule, today i am suppose to do 22 miles, but i did 90 mins at 6:36 pace.

olu, I don't do schedules. You simply cannot train someone over the internet, regardless of what the snake-oil salesmen will tell you. For coaching, you need one-on-one in person contact. As a rule of thumb, if you can't sit down on the front porch to talk with your coach, you should consider getting another coach.

Soak in the broad concepts that you get on the internet, experiment, review, and adjust accordingly. Do not purchase blueprints from the internet, you'll still be left wondering how to execute the plans.

Good luck.

well lets see... here is how i set up my schedule. i'll give you my last week of training, which is pretty much similar to my other weeks, here it is:

Mon-60min

tues-30min(a.m.0/60min(p.m.)

wed-60min

thur-30min(a.m.)/60min(p.m.)

Fri-60min

Sat-90min

I've made out my weeks like this because it is like my high school schedule. the lighter days on Mon,wed,and fri. help me recover from the longer ones. As you can see i take Sun. off, but since you're doing more mileage i'd run all seven. earlier in the summer, I'd do some of those combo hills on wed's(like 4-6) and i'd cut my Sat. run short because i'd either attack the hills or attack after the hilltop. That just develops your leg muscles and your ability to be able to surge on the hills. this schedule has worked pretty well for me, but remember we're all different so if this doesn't work, try something else.

p.s. i'm also running these at my easy run effort(7:15-7:30pace.) Now, on Wed's, I'll run at a steady pace to get some light faster training in and because my coach told me too. also, i'm about to start my Fresh. year at college and we run 8k's.

6:04--at the end of a 142 mile week. that "half" was actually 13.9 miles. the lack of organization at that race was phenomenal. i was talking to the race director afterwards and he was like, "6k...that's 4.1 miles, right?"

Jameson wrote:

what pace did you do the mormon lake half in???

Looks like a log of typical elite distance runner. My comment, he is the master of his destiny. His performance this week should reveal the truth about whether he chose the best path for himself.

Remember, everyone is an experiment of one. My advice is just advice. You can try what I suggest and see if it works for you. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't work. Just be sensible and realistic, and don't think that their are any shortcuts. Tinman

Can i pls hear more advice.

I'll be a Senior in high school and my schedule looks like this.

Monday- 7 easy (7:00-7:15 mile pace)

Tuesday- 8 easy

Wednesday- Fartlek (5x2:00mins. at 5k pace with 2:00mins. of training pace in between each then 5x30secs at a harder pace with 30 seconds of training pace in between each. I do a 2 mile warm up and 2 mile warm down so it equals around 8 miles total

Thursday- 6 easy

Friday- 7 easy with 10 100m strides at the end

Saturday- Fartlek (12x1min. with 2 mins. of training pace in between each. 2 mile warm up/warm down

Sunday- 10 miles (6:20-6:30 pace)

The past 2 summers I would hit 55-70 miles and then the last 2 weeks would be 80-95. My coach is a high mileage advocate but my body wasn't ready to handle it so I would always have lower back problems, achilles tendonitis, and shin splints. My seasons went pretty well but not what i wanted. Sophomore year I ran 16:30, 4:32, and 1:58. Then this year my body was just bashed and I ran horrible and had to cut my track season short. My times were 16:24, 4:45, and 2:00.4. Of course I was devastated but I guess that is what a pulled hamstring does to you. Now I'm well and I am in the best shape of my life. I think I finally found what works for me. I'm being real careful to make sure my body recovers decently and that I don't go anearobic on my farltek runs because it is not time for that. So Olu, just make sure listen to the signs that your body gives you and push to your limits but don't over do it..

bump

can i please get more help? thanx for the input