USATF Explanation for Alice Schmidt Being in 1500m Final

agreed Schmidt should not be in the finals. rentawreck sums it pretty good....personally I can't believe a non- qualifier will be allowed to run, especially one that was NOT interfered with, she ran a clean race and was NOT a in the top five, so it is clear to me she should not advance.

Why can't they "take it back?" That's ridiculous. Of course they can tell her that she now is out. They told Anderson that she was out after they already told her that she was in. It's not like the earth blows up if they "take it back." Good grief.

This comes down to very basic notions of fairness and Schmidt didn't make the finals fair and square. She had her opportunity and wasted it.

The DQ was overturned, correct? Then all effects of the DQ need to overturned, including Schmidt's place in the final. How does this not make sense to people? Mortimer, who was directly affected by the contact, is the only one who should make it a 13 person final - but that actually is USATF's call. This isn't.

Can the 12 or so coaches file an appeal to get Schmidt out?

So much is wrong with this post. The difference between 12 or 13 runners is negligible? Are you serious? You clearly do not understand our sport at all. Please go back and read the rest of this thread and educate yourself.

Go tell Uceny, Rowbury, Pierce, and Simpson that having another runner with the "A" standard (who is already an Olympian at 800 and beat World Champion Simpson at Pre in this event) that they now have to race against for one of 3 Olympic spots is negligible. They'd laugh in your race.

Second dumbest thing I've heard today after "Schmidt is in the final".

Wrong. Tarmoh "made it" based on unofficial results. Everyone knows that the times on the scoreboard are unofficial. And the results were appealed immediately after. It isn't about who was told what. It is about official results versus unofficial results. The official results show that Schmidt was in based on the fact that Anderson was DQ'ed after a team of referees reviewed the tape and determined that there was sufficient jostling to warrant one. Why would USATF assume that a different conclusion would come after reviewing the tapes the day after? They set the field Friday night and nothing was going to change that. If Anderson appealed, which she did, and her appeal was successful they determined that they would just add Anderson to the field.

Again, they are adding Anderson to the field not Schmidt according to USATF's own established process.

Jill Greer looks at it like a DNF because of falling in prelim in the 800, appealing, and being added to the field later, whether or whether not it is full.

TV lawyers lerned me about fruit from the poisoned trees getting thrown away at the same time they throw away the tree. Schmidt is in if it's a DQ the rule is clear and if it's not a DQ then she has not earned the lane either by boon or by the miscommunication of when the placement would be official(at the exhustion of Anderson appeal time).

It is unfair on it's face to the runners who earned the lane. Jill Geer does what she is told. 100% sure she does not make these decisions. If pressed to explain the decision she should have said something to like----

an outline of the reasoning has not been forwarded to me. I'll have to get back to you when I get that information.

Sometimes a Communications Director's proper choice is to not communicate.

It is very possible that the DQ was contentious among the officials. Clearly, there was some evidence that Anderson impeded Amy Mortimer otherwise they would not have DQ'ed her the Friday night after a team of referees reviewed the tape. Other athletes have complained about Anderson's tactics before.

During the appeal, some officials may have been against reinstating her, thinking that the DQ was legit and would unfairly take away Alice Schmidt's spot. Others may have thought that Anderson was unfairly DQ'ed. This scenario seems entirely possible and it seems like a good compromise to let both of the runners whose Olympic Dream is on the line go on to the final.

I, for one, am happy that Schmidt is in the final. We will get our best team to London and she may very well be part of it. I think she has tremendous upside in the 1500 and she has admitted in interviews that she will be more competitive on a world level in the 1500. Most people would agree. Go Alice!

webfoot wrote:

USATF told Schmidt she was in. I don't think 13 in the final is a problem in terms of number of runners for a 1500m. 13 in the final is also a lesser evil than telling Schmidt she's out after telling her she's in.

Brojos, please don't start manufacturing "news" stories.

Agree. The benefit of the doubt should always apply. Furthermore, Alice is super attractive which will be great for the sport as far as national TV audience. Just saying .....

A Duck wrote:

Exactly. Once they advanced her, it is likely that her hotel reservations were kept/extended, members of her family and support staff planned to keep their rooms and stick around a few more days.

Advancing her, and then saying "whoops," would not be fair -- and it would effect a lot more people than just herself.

You can NOT be serious. Her HOTEL RESERVATIONS may have been kept/extended? Hold the phone!!!

Well, all right then. If she wasn't planning on even staying for the final, but was erroneously told she was in, and may have extended a hotel reservation, we'd better break the rules for her! Maybe she even had a rented car!!!

Even for you, A Duck, this is embarrassing.

craftysquire wrote:

An extra runner in 1500 is not going to inconvenience anybody! I hope she makes the team!!

Um...

Do you even think about the idiocy you post?

Read your words again.

She won't inconvenience anyone, you say? Except, I take it, the runners you hope she keeps off of the team? (You know, the ones who actually made the final.)

Schmidt being in is gross. Typical USATF garbage.

If she qualifies and keeps a real finalist off in doing so, that should be huge. Like take them to court huge. Schmidt is already on a team and step away from this ugly situation, none of which is her fault.

I'm not eating that apple. wrote:

TV lawyers lerned me about fruit from the poisoned trees getting thrown away at the same time they throw away the tree. Schmidt is in if it's a DQ the rule is clear and if it's not a DQ then she has not earned the lane either by boon or by the miscommunication of when the placement would be official(at the exhustion of Anderson appeal time).

It is unfair on it's face to the runners who earned the lane. Jill Geer does what she is told. 100% sure she does not make these decisions. If pressed to explain the decision she should have said something to like----

an outline of the reasoning has not been forwarded to me. I'll have to get back to you when I get that information.

Sometimes a Communications Director's proper choice is to not communicate.

There was no "miscommunication of when placement would be official." According to USATF the official field was set after Gabriele was DQ'ed. The referees that reviewed the tapes determined that there was enough jostling to warrant a DQ. Anderson entered an appeal to this decision the next day in order to be added to an already set field. That is their process. Period. According to USATF's process Schmidt is in.

It is likely that the decision to reinstate Anderson was contentious, especially since a team of experienced referees had already concluded that she was DQ'ed after reviewing the video.

Who is on this Jury of Appeals anyway? It isn't just the same referees that initially made the call. It really could be anybody. If Anderson's appeal was debatable on any level then it makes sense that the Jury would want both to go through.

They both have a strong shot at making the team. Something as important as this shouldn't be settled in a backroom somewhere. Let the athletes settle it out on the track on Sunday.

This final is going to be amazing.

Actually, yes. She should not have run the 10,000. Also, she adversely impacted the pace of the race so her Uhl could tie her shoe. Long thread on this last week.

Nell carter wrote:

She can decide what she wants to run AFTER the 1500m. Why should she have to decide anything beforehand. Should Shalane not have run the 10k since she knew she was not going to run the 10 in London?

I really don't understand why the Brojos were all about Alan Webb being put in the 5k field when he wasn't even a little bit close to qualifying, but are pissed off that a girl who actually has the A standard and came within a couple tenths of a second gets put in the final on a technicality. Schmidt being in the final is an additional runner- the other people who qualified still get to run. Webb kept some poor sucker who probably spent the last 10 years of his life dreaming about this race at home.

I don't understand how everyone can't just follow the simple chain of logic:

1) Anderson gets DQed from the simi

2) Schmidt is therefore added to the final as the next person in line from that heat

3) Anderson protests DQ

4) The protest is upheld and she is given an extra spot in the final

It's not Schmidt getting the "added spot" - it's Anderson, who was disqualified from her simi-final heat.

Seems pretty simple to me

Clear explanation wrote:

I don't understand how everyone can't just follow the simple chain of logic:

1) Anderson gets DQed from the simi

2) Schmidt is therefore added to the final as the next person in line from that heat

3) Anderson protests DQ

4) The protest is upheld and she is given an extra spot in the final

It's not Schmidt getting the "added spot" - it's Anderson, who was disqualified from her simi-final heat.

Seems pretty simple to me

Perhaps because your logic is flawed and you don't read prior posts. Please post a link showing that your #2 is the proper procedure. It isn't. Look at the 200 semis yesterday. Multiple guys scratched and guess who was moved up to fill their spots? You got it, nobody.

It is shocking that so many don't understand how wrong it is that Schmidt was added to the final. She has ABSOLUTELY no business being there and her presence is going to have a large impact on the race.

Maybe... wrote:

During the appeal, some officials may have been against reinstating her, thinking that the DQ was legit and would unfairly take away Alice Schmidt's spot. Others may have thought that Anderson was unfairly DQ'ed. This scenario seems entirely possible and it seems like a good compromise to let both of the runners whose Olympic Dream is on the line go on to the final.

It is not a "good compromise." It is an abdication of responsibility. Whether it was influenced by corruption, spinelessness, stupidity, ignorance, or some vague desire not to disappoint anyone or end someone's "Olympic Dream," it is creating the substantial possibility of a train wreck, involving wrongful deprivation of a spot on the U.S. Olympic team, that is entirely foreseeable and could easily be avoided.

I've been involved in hundreds of appeals. When a "final judgment" is reversed, the expectations of perfectly blameless individuals are often adversely affected. That's just an unfortunate consequence of making a tough decision and doing the right thing.

rentawreck wrote:

Perhaps because your logic is flawed and you don't read prior posts. Please post a link showing that your #2 is the proper procedure. It isn't. Look at the 200 semis yesterday. Multiple guys scratched and guess who was moved up to fill their spots? You got it, nobody.

There were no scratches from the semis yesterday.

It is shocking that so many don't understand how wrong it is that Schmidt was added to the final. She has ABSOLUTELY no business being there and her presence is going to have a large impact on the race.

Schmidt was in the final. Another runner protested a DQ which was overturned and that runner was added to the final.