Hasay dejected, realizes she's not making Olympic team this year.

Her thighs look massive in the News Video in that link, compared to what they used to be. Is she powerlifting or something/

She needs to get away from U of Oregon. They are extremely overrated. The only top notch runner they've developed was Rupp and he was trained by Salazar. They've had some decent middle distance men, but have done nothing in the 5,000 or 10,000. Puskedra isn't close to being in the same class as Derrick, Levins and Diego. I think once she gets in a decent Pro group she'll be fine. She should have gone to Stanford or Colorado or back east.

Hasay has been over raced. But she has also hit a barrier in performance. She's been at roughly the same level for the last 3-4 years. Some improvement but very incremental. Better at XC than track. In the end to improve two things will need to happen.

1. She needs to get out of the college system. I am not dising UO. But she has less control of how many races she runs.

2. She'll need to run high mileage consistently all year round.

Then she will find out how good she is versus world class runners. She's a big girl now both physically and in who she is racing. Even Pre found world level competition a different challenge.

By the way, she is only 20.

Hasay is a victim of a system flaw that plagues most young prodigies. They simply are not put on a path to get to the next level - let me explain what I mean:

Many young prodigies are gifted athletes with good natural mechanics, body types and strong natural VO2 Max characteristics. So they naturally show good promise early in running and so are placed into the youth running system in this country (Jr Olympics, middle and high school XC and track). This system emphasizes VO2 Max and speed development, as all "distance" races they are allowed to compete in are VO2 Max and speed cenetered (800-5k). These prodigies, given their natural talents, quickly develop their speed and VO2 Max (which can be developed to close to maximum in just a few years), and soon become youth phenoms at races of this distance. But soon they reach close to their VO2 Max and speed maximums and stagnate.

In order to them to continue to improve and reach the world class level as an open competitor they must have the aerobic and thershold development along with the VO2 Max and speed development. But unfortunately they have done little in the first 8 yrs of their running careers to develop that to a high level (becaus eit was not as immediately necessary to see good initial gains). Because they produce well early off of a lower mileage and higher speed based system (because of their natural talents) they are often coached in a manner that does not allow them to do enough mileage and distance and threshold work needed to develop aerobically to a world class level, and aerobic development (capillary development, lactate threshold development, aerobic threshold development) is something that takes far longer than VO2 Max and speed to develop to a world class level. Many youth coaches and school coaches mistakingly believeing they that because of these kids run fast off of lower mileage that higher mileage and significant threshold work isn't necessary for them or the coach personally lack the frame of reference (because of the system itself in this country) to realize what world class aerobic development is. Or even more probably they work on what gives them the most immediate benefit (early on this is speed and VO2 max) and allows them to immediately be successful instead of looking at what the long terms needs of continued development is.

So many young prodigies, like Hasay, get to a point of stagnation, and find it hard to get to the next level (world class open competitor), simply because they are not there in terms of aerobic development. They go through a system that believes 40-50 miles a week in high school is high mileage and that 60-70 miles per week in college is high mileage and more than sufficient. And often this simply puts them well behind most world class runners in terms of aerobic development. Unfortantely by the time some of these athletes and their coaches realize this (if they do at all) they are very far behind the curve and starting late on what takes the longest to develop.

Many people see a Jordan Hasay type who runs very well at 1500 and 3000 as a high schooler and believe that in 4 more years they will make incredible improvements, but if the got there based mainly on VO2 max development with little aerobic development, the chances are they will only improve slightly to modestly, as Hasay has done.

In order for these distance phenoms to make it to a world class level (in todays competitive world) they must have a complete package (aerobic development, threshod development, speed development, VO2 max development) and since threshold and aerobic development are the areas that take the longest to develop to a world class level they should be begun early and worked on significantly through the runners career.

None of this is necessary the fault fo the athletes or even many of their coaches, but simply a system that is not set-up to develop many runners to a world class level.

Arthur Lydiard pointed this out to us in an open letter to U.S. Coaches back in the mid 1990's. Unfortunately the advice he gave has largely been ignored or poorly disseminated.

Factt wrote:

what do i know?? wrote:

I think she is being slightly overtrained and is a constant state of exhaustion.

In high school she ran 50 miles or less a week and Coach Mando made sure she was fresh, recovered, and being careful and not overdoing it.

Now she's running in the 80s for mileage and seems to be doing 3 workouts a week! I'm a HUGE fan and think she would benefit from reducing the mileage by 10-15 and cutting back on some of the hard training sessions.

Just my opinion, but I think it would restore some speed and make her sharper and fresher in races.

Reid only runs around 50 miles a week, so you may have a point.

This information is false. In high school she ran no more than 40 miles per week and now is running around 60 miles a week. She also swims between 10-15 miles/ week

Last Chance Runner wrote:

Hasay has been over raced. But she has also hit a barrier in performance. She's been at roughly the same level for the last 3-4 years. Some improvement but very incremental. Better at XC than track. In the end to improve two things will need to happen.

1. She needs to get out of the college system. I am not dising UO. But she has less control of how many races she runs.

2. She'll need to run high mileage consistently all year round.

Then she will find out how good she is versus world class runners. She's a big girl now both physically and in who she is racing. Even Pre found world level competition a different challenge.

By the way, she is only 20.

And she is also pushing a 4.0+ GPA. Even at Oregon that's pretty good. Despite the overall mediocrity of the University, having a 4.0 in the Scholars program she is in is a worthy accomplishment. Grad schools will look kindly on that...

Knee Pain wrote:

She prob could model

Ah nope too short..

Straight Talk On Training wrote:

In order for these distance phenoms to make it to a world class level (in todays competitive world) they must have a complete package (aerobic development, threshod development, speed development, VO2 max development) and since threshold and aerobic development are the areas that take the longest to develop to a world class level they should be begun early and worked on significantly through the runners career.

Knowing what I know of her HS coach and Lanana and her background in other endurance pursuits as a youngster, she's getting this - in measure - with her development. I see Hasay's development in a similar light as Rupp's: the screws tighten slowly on world class development. I feel pretty good that Ms. Hasay is still to develop into one of the most accomplished US distance runners on the world level.

she is done, Kosinski will have a much better Pro Career.

Is anyone else in love with her?

hasey is a the top of her talent range. she's not getting any faster, I guess the next step would be the marathon but she is to young for that. Quite honestly, maybe the most overrated runner these days.

Who isn't in love with her?

Ever since she was like 12 I've had a brotherly love for her. My older friend loved her like a daughter. Now that she is 20...... Be back in a few...

Does anyone think that all the attention on Hasay since she was 16 has hurt her? All the hype from the last Olympic Trials has had her in the spotlight since then, and the poor girl can't even have a bad race without the world thinking her career is over. Easy to speculate from the couch.

run837 wrote:

Does anyone think that all the attention on Hasay since she was 16 has hurt her? All the hype from the last Olympic Trials has had her in the spotlight since then, and the poor girl can't even have a bad race without the world thinking her career is over. Easy to speculate from the couch.

Do you realize that your first question is speculation?

First of all. I don't get why you HAVE to run a certain event because it may be your best shot. What happened to enjoying the sport? If she likes the 1500m, why not focus on that? She obviously has some great leg speed, you can't run 4:10 and be slow..not to mention out kick Sheila Reid (Indoors). She is young, developing, and has way too many people expecting amazing feats every time she races. Seriously, if someone said I was too slow to run the 800/1500m and should move up to the 10k, I'd rather be TOO slow. Running a completely miserable race (TO ME) is not worth it. She should stick to what makes her enjoy the sport and keep the expectations of everyone away. Life is way to short to let others ruin it for you.

I would be completely and wonderfully happy if I could run as fast as her!

Go Jordan!

Put the Lydiard koolaid down. Name one western world class athlete that followed this training program. Not even New Zealand is cranking out world class distance runners. This whole building an aerobic base is simply trying to rationalize the rise of the African runners and that their aerobic base of running to and from school was the reason for their success.

There are youth running clubs with kids running 5k and 10k road races and training primarily aerobic running, yet the elite athletes continue to come from traditional track based programs. None of the youth age marathoners of the 1970's became successful adult distance runners. Likewise, no Olympians have emerged from the Taharamara Indians of Mexico let alone found their way to a college track program to lend validity to this theory. Then there's India that has a large population of kids running to and from school and exposure to British athletic programs and yet no elite runners.

As for Jordan, she's only 20, it sounds like she's a little overtrained and feeling the pressure of the Olympic year. IMO she should cut back her mileage, drop down to the 1500, if anything, to work on her speed, and then plan for the 5000 in 2012.

xxxxxxx or how many x there are has it somewhat right, as do many on this board. My family and I have witnessed Jordan run in person at races since she was in ninth grade. We are a big fan of hers. We attended a race in Eugene recently and could not believe how tall she was compared to last year.

IMO, this once "little girl" is still growing and we think growth spurts may be impacting her racing? Can this happen at age 20? Does it take awhile to adjust to something like this even though she looks pysically fine? Anyone have some thoughts on this?

She's only at a 4-year running camp for now. After her 4 years are done Jordan should return home and join the Mammoth Track Club. Southern California is the only place in the world with the history of having a total, complete sports culture and lifestyle suitable for world class runners and track & field athletes. Jordan will have available the training partners, coaches, sports doctors, and business people that she needs to take her to Olympic and Outdoor Worlds medals.

Physically she looks FINE!!!! Hottest runner hands down