Dionicio Cerón
My call for best marathon runner..!
Dionicio Cerón
My call for best marathon runner..!
TLW wrote:
Anyone have any training details about KK? I remember reading years ago that he would close long runs with two miles under 9 minutes.
Also, F U C K Phil Hersch.
Phil Hersch = worst journalist ever.
Cheif wrote:
He had many chances to run for the USA, yet chose the $. I was disappointed every single time.
For several years, he was no doubt the best. At one point I thought he could have been considered the best of all time.
He ran in the '08 Olympic trials, but failed to qualify and I think he only had one other opportunity were he was a citizen and wasn't injuried.
TLW wrote:
Anyone have any training details about KK? I remember reading years ago that he would close long runs with two miles under 9 minutes.
Also, F U C K Phil Hersch.
What I do know is that everyone who attempted to train with him never lasted more that a couple of weeks. I wouldn't say KK was antisocial, but all he did was train and sleep; he lived that monastic type lifestyle like Paula Radcliff.
wejo wrote:
If you don't think he's top 5 of all-time right now, who do you put ahead of him? Tergat and Geb never won world titles either. Geb never has beaten the best.
My argument was that you judge a Marathoner either by titles or by time.
KK has never won a title, neither did Geb or Tergat in the Marathon as you point out. Therefore I compare them by time. And Tergat and Geb were a lot faster than KK.
At the end of the day, a London victory is worth just as much as Berlin. It's $$$, not the title.
The Brojos' piece on KK was one of the best and classiest articles I've ever read on this site. There are fair suspicions and criticisms of KK (remember he was blasted on here by the Brojos in 2001 after the WC DNF), but today isn't the time for that; it's a day to appreciate the career of an all-time great. Well done.
Also, when Mother Teresa died Phil Hersh made sure to point out that she died a virgin. "At the time to put out, Mother Teresa always gave up."
Add WCs also
2010
TD Bank Beach To Beacon Road Race 38 ME 8/07
Nyrr Uae Healthy Kidney 10k 2010 38 NY 5/15
2008
Steamboat Classic 15K - IL 6/14
2007
2008 U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Men's Marathon 36 NY 11/03
San Jose Rock 'n' Roll Half Marathon 2007 35 CA 10/14
Us 10K Classic 36 GA 9/03
Healthy Kidney 10K 35 NY 5/19
2006
Flora London Marathon 2006 29 LON 4/23
Shamrock Shuffle 2006 34 IL 4/02
The Lasalle Bank Shamrock Shuffle 2006 34 IL 3/21
2005
Cvs/Pharmacy Downtown 5K 33 RI 9/11
2004
Lasalle Bank Chicago Marathon 2004 32 IL 10/10
Philadelphia Distance Run 2004 32 PA 9/19
Falmouth Road Race 33 MA 8/08
Beach To Beacon 10K 33 ME 8/01
2003
North County News 5K 32 NY 6/04
2002
Marine Corps Marathon 2002 31 DC 10/27
Lasalle Bank Chicago Marathon 2002 30 IL 10/13
Falmouth Road Race 31 MA 8/11
World Best 10K 2002 31 PR 2/01
2001
Peachtree Road Race 2001 29 GA 7/04
2000
Lasalle Bank Chicago Marathon 2000 28 IL 10/22
Philadelphia Distance Run 2000 28 PA 9/17
Falmouth Road Race 29 MA 8/12
Beach To Beacon 10K 28 ME 8/05
1999
The Lasalle Bank Chicago Marathon 1999 27 IL 10/24
Philadelphia Distance Run Festival Of Races 1999 28 PA 9/19
Cigna Falmouth Road Race 1999 28 MA 8/15
Beach To Beacon 10K 1999 27 ME 8/07
Peachtree Road Race 10k 1999 27 GA 7/04
Rite Aid Cleveland Marathon 1999 25 OH 5/02
1998
Chicago Marathon 1998 27 IL 10/11
Harvard Pilgrim 5K 1998 27 RI 9/20
New Haven Road Race 1998 26 CT 9/07
Woods Hole To Falmouth Road Race 1998 27 MA 8/16
Bastille Day 5K Run 1998 - IL 7/17
Utica Boilermaker 25 NY 7/12
Peachtree Road Race 10K 26 GA 7/04
25th Annual Steamboat Classic 1998 27 IL 6/20
Bay to Breakers 1998 - CA 5/18
26Th Annual Shamrock Open 8K 1998 27 VA 3/21
1997
Bank of America Chicago Marathon 1997 25 IL 10/19
25th Falmouth Road Race 1997 - MA 8/17
Bix-7 1997 - IA 7/11
Sallie Mae 10k 1997 25 DC 4/27
Cooper River Bridge Run 1997 26 SC 4/04
Azalea Trail Run 10K 26 AL 3/29
1996
Boilermaker 1996 20 NY 7/14
1994
Syracuse Festival of Races 5k 1994 23 NY 10/02
Utica Boilermaker 15K 1994 20 NY 7/10
I hope a suitable place will be found to retire his body.
I'm very sad with the news that Khalid Khannouchi has died.
Barakus'Obama wrote:
Very good career. But "incredible"? he didn't medal.
Moreover. He isn't an Olympian.
Bad luck doesn't take away from greatness - he was ineligible one year, injured another, etc.
By the way, by that standard, Haile Geb, Geffrey Mutai, and Paul Tergat aren't "incredible" either.
I too was at Central Park watching the 2008 Marathon Trials and I agree completely with Citizen Runner - Khalid did not look good, and I was rather stunned that he managed to end up 4th looking the way he did. That was imho Ryan Hall's best race ever but, if Khalid had been healthy/uninjured/in his best shape, I suspect the race would have unfolded differently. Even with the problems he apparently had physically, Khalid had so much heart! It would have been easy to drop out, given what was going on with his form.KK was one of the great marathon runners of any era, in my book. I would include Sammy Wanjiru, Carlos Lopes, Rob DeCastella, Frank Shorter, perhaps Douglas Wakiihuri, Toshiko Seko, Haile G, Paul Tergat, and Steve Jones, among others, on that list, and some of the current Kenyans, e.g. Patrick Makau, look to me like they will definitely get on there as their careers unfold. KK was amazing for taking the race to another level and then so consistently running races at that level - just incredible at the time. I agree with those who said he was a force in pushing things to that level that the top runners are at in 2012 - someone probably would have done it at some point if KK had not, but it was KK who did it.I got to see KK train a bit at Rockefeller Estate in Sleepy Hollow, NY. He was a very open and friendly guy to a recreational runner saying hello to him in the parking lot at the end of a training run. He had a silky-smooth running style, and was just amazing to watch.I still remember the first time I heard he was running at Rockie's: a couple of my triathlete friends were out on a run, and one said to the other, pointing to a guy on another trail whose head was visible whizzing by: "Wow, look at how crazy fast that guy is mountain biking!!" As they watched, there was a break in the bushes that separated the trails, so they could see his body, not just his head, and they were absolutely shocked to realize he was running at that speed, not biking!Thank you KK for all the inspiration and amazing performances - wishing you a wonderful retirement!
Citizen Runner wrote:
Make Take on the World wrote:KK was a great runner and his numbers speak for themselves.
If KK was really injured, it's not fair to criticize him for not running more for the US. For some sports, like baseball or basketball, an injured player - depending on the injury and the player - can still pull himself together for a big game and contribute, like Michael Jordan playing with the flu or something like that. An injured marathoner contributes nothing to the "team". Gutting out a 2:40 despite injury or taking the place of a healthy runner in the Olympics or the WC isn't helping anyone and it's probably keeping you from getting healthy and running well in the future.
I was at the 2008 Olympic Marathon Trials race in NYC and every time KK went by I couldn't help but notice how gimpy his running form was by that time. Personally I was impressed that he was able to hobble at 2:12 marathon pace looking a messed up as he did.
To whoever wrote the article on the home page, my compliments.
Complete folly to judge any persons CAREER on one race that takes place ONCE every 4 years.
olympic crapshoot wrote:
Complete folly to judge any persons CAREER on one race that takes place ONCE every 4 years.
Particularly in the marathon, when the Olympics are not exactly the strongest fields.
People say KK never won a championship...Chicago and London Marathons *are* the championships...
Went down to see that. Had a bet on Geb and saw the 3 together with about 5km (maybe further) to go. 5km to go thought my £ was safe but Khannouchi dropped him and Tergat + set a world best I think. He showed what a great leveller the marathon is
MAPIV wrote:
wejo wrote:I was going to ask you where you think he ranks all time. He's top 5 on my list for sure but I don't want to rank them without a little more thought.
He's top 5 on the list of Americans all time. There is no way he'd be considered top 5 all time in the world. I am not sure exactly which you meant.
The olympics and WC are important, but you can't just use those as your critea. Take the case of Henry Rono. I believe he is most definitely one of the all time best yet never ran in an Olympics.
awful generous of you....I'm not even sure i'd give him that high of praise. thank God i rarely have the "privilege" to read his dribble.....dude~
malmo wrote:
Again, a little bit slower if you have to: I don't understand why wejo gave that 3rd rate journalist the time of day?
Thank you. I believe this needs to be hammered home w/ anyone who doesn't accept the reality that KK is one of the best we've ever seen, and ever will see. put ANYONE in that london race (or perhaps even chicago-w/ tanui), and there is little likelihood that they hang w/ KK. yes it is a diff world nowadays, but throw them all in the same race, the guy who sacs up when it counts is going to win. 9/10, that guy was Khalid.dude~
atrrunner wrote:
Take someone like Geneti from the all time list, toss him in the London race--do you really think he would beat Geb, Tergat, and KK?
Oldtimefan wrote:
MAPIV wrote:He's top 5 on the list of Americans all time. There is no way he'd be considered top 5 all time in the world. I am not sure exactly which you meant.
The olympics and WC are important, but you can't just use those as your critea. Take the case of Henry Rono. I believe he is most definitely one of the all time best yet never ran in an Olympics.
I didn't mention the Olympics or WC. There are no criteria which would place KK in the top 5 all time. Of course, KK was a great marathoner, but he cannot possibly rank that high as he has no achievements to merit such accolades. Many of you people probably would place 20 marathoners in your top 5 all time.
My pick for top 4 marathoners all time.
Jim Peters
Derek Clayton
Khalid Khannouchi
Haile Gebrselassie