You speak of his advanced degree in exercise physiology. What was the degree and where did he get it? I thought that he was an English type.
You speak of his advanced degree in exercise physiology. What was the degree and where did he get it? I thought that he was an English type.
Rather than be a jerk and tell you to look it up yourself, I'll give you the Colorado cross-country faculty/staff link:
http://cubuffs.ocsn.com/sports/c-xc/mtt/wetmore_mark00.html
Special excerpts for the two old guys who prefer internet mentoring to actual coaching:
"A native of Bernardsville, N.J., Charles Mark Wetmore graduated with a bachelor's degree in English Education from Rutgers (were he lettered as a middle distance runner)in 1978 before receiving his master's in movement sciences from Columbia in 1988.
"His successes at Colorado have not been by accident either, but by a well-defined plan based on a blue-collar work ethic with modified lessons learned by reading Running The Lydiard Way by New Zealand coaching legend Arthur Lydiard. The five-stage plan of aerobic development and periodization has been the foundation of Wetmore's own legacy in Boulder as he says that it is founded in physiology and patiently executed."
A "well-defined plan", strong influence from Lydiard (who was the exercise phys man of his time, like it or not--maybe you haven't heard him speak of blood ph values. I have.), and a "(foundation) in physiology...patiently executed."
Not a whole lot of "ignore science and just run" with this Wetmore guy. Lydiard either.
Comprehending things yet, Hodge?
Redux:
"I saw a clear example of this a couple of years ago down on the track when former NCAA and U.S. national champion Shannon Butler approached Wetmore one day, asking if the coach would oversee his training.
First, Wetmore told Butler (who was already in 30-minute 10K shape) to "go do base work, 100 miles a week, for a year, then come back and we will talk." That is what Butler did, and sure enough, exactly one year to the day, he jogged by Wetmore's office ? without having talked to him in a year ? and said he was now ready to train.
That is the kind of long-term outlook it takes in Wetmore's program.
"It takes two years for someone serious about training to get fit enough to get fit," explained Wetmore, whose runners are able to train twice a day many days of the week."
guest,
What Wetmore is saying here is what I and others have said many times before, it has nothing to do with advanced degrees or "modern science." (the rocket science statement has nothing to do with exercise phys. has to do with complications. translation: running is not complicated)
Lydiard knew his physiology but also knows athletics. He PRACTICED the science, you spout off about what you think you know, so far I am not impressed.
Lydiard also say no exercise physiologist has ever coached an Olympic champion & probably never will.
This is not "anti-science" as you have admitted, Lydiard is the real running scientist, everyone since only "explaining" what we already have learned many years ago.
What Wetmore says above is what I have always advocated and stressed, he may base it on his advanced degree in movement science & coaching/running experience. I base my opinion (same as above) on 100,000 miles of running& coaching with some highly competitive efforts in races among them.
was formerly coached by the guy. If you hang around him enough you hear some pretty good Lydiard stories, along with the old Nj stories about kids he coached at that small high school in NJ where he turned several kids into HS all-americans(I could name 7-8, but who cares). They were a group 1 school(small school)group 4 is biggest in NJ, yet the boys somehow(maybe he had something to do with it?)managed to win the Meet of Champions twice '82 - that team had at least 2 HS all-americans and '86. Both men and women won it that year- a few all americans there as well. All the while beating scools like CBA with 1500 boys and no football team! The records for this little HS are 1:49 in the 8, 4:07 in the 16 and 8:54 in the 32. From about '66 to I believe '89 they never lost a dual meet! Granted there was a very good coach there, who coached Wetmore. In fact, I think he was on that last team to loose a dual meet in like '66. The guy always said there is a 4:10 miler in every HS.
I went to Seton Hall and in the summer got to run with some of the HS kids he had coached, they were pretty crazy about running, not unlike the way we became after hanging around the guy. Our middle and distance program started to flourish during his brief stint at the Hall, but out head coach would race us into the ground during indoors which really got to Mark and he left , much to our chagrin.
Followed his career at CU so I know he has worked his magic out there. Aside from the aforementioned walk-on to AA's, I think One Keg forgot Zeke Tiernan. Also, lets not forget alot of the AA's he's had who were no hot shots in HS. Like Friedberg, Sean Smith, Chris Severy, Clint Wells, Tom Reese, Adam Batliner, Sean Found, Cooper, Cleckler, Shanye Culpepper etc.. Lets not get hung up on semantics, Run in the buff. Boulder, I am sure is a fine place to run, but there have been more AA's in his past 7 years than in the 20 before. Also, some of the aforementioned were decent HS runners, but look at the list. They were either decent in-state kids or unheard of. He has done alot with whatever he is given, wherever he goes - not debatable!
Same ol' stuff, a mix of half truths. The talk was about walk ons. A deeper look at Tiernan, Wells, Reese, and Batliner would show that they were studs in hs. If they had run at low altitude in hs, everyone would have recruited them. They were recruited by the previous coach who needed no introduction to altitude.
Still, Wetmore is good, but no better than other college coaches. How many walk on AA's did he have before he got to Boulder?
......I saw a clear example of this a couple of years ago down on the track when former NCAA and U.S. national champion Shannon Butler approached Wetmore one day, asking if the coach would oversee his training.
First, Wetmore told Butler (who was already in 30-minute 10K shape) to "go do base work, 100 miles a week, for a year, then come back and we will talk." That is what Butler did, and sure enough, exactly one year to the day, he jogged by Wetmore's office ? without having talked to him in a year ? and said he was now ready to train.
SO WHAT HAPPENED? Is Butler coached at this point by Wetmore, haven't heard anything about this?
reddragon wrote:
......I saw a clear example of this a couple of years ago down on the track when former NCAA and U.S. national champion Shannon Butler approached Wetmore one day, asking if the coach would oversee his training.
First, Wetmore told Butler (who was already in 30-minute 10K shape) to "go do base work, 100 miles a week, for a year, then come back and we will talk." That is what Butler did, and sure enough, exactly one year to the day, he jogged by Wetmore's office ? without having talked to him in a year ? and said he was now ready to train.
SO WHAT HAPPENED? Is Butler coached at this point by Wetmore, haven't heard anything about this?
Exactly my thoughts... How much has Shannon improved since he started being coached by Wetmore? He was in "30-minute 10K shape", then ran 100 per week for a YEAR and now is being coached by Wetmore. The question should be how much has he improved since he is under Wetmore's program.
dipshits,
Butler has not been coached by Wetmore. had Mark thought he would really be serious he may have entertained the idea. However, Butler is known to have battled with the bottle and has had several injuries the past few years and according to One Keg is now back in Montana.
As for the kids I mentioned - yes they did run at altitude, still None of them ran in Footlocker Finals and niether Arkansas, Oregon, nor Stanfrod would have come calling on those guys. Mark like to get as many in-state kids for 2 reasons. 1) He does not have a fully funded program and he can bring them in cheaper, get a few more and develop them over the years. 2) He prefers to develop american talent and if the team has a CO flavor, all the better(think of the '97, 98 teams). Furthermore, to Run in the Buff, Boulder is nice, but CU does not have near the facilities that Oregon, Arkansas or Stanford have - not even debatable. Lastly, Scotty L. is exactly the type of kid Wetmore would have been looking for and he would have made the cut at the inital time trial(well he did in '93, but would today as well) Why? Because he is what Wetmore looks for. Methodical, patient, very hard working and motivated.
I know everyone likes to point out that Wet got Ritz, the Torres and Slat - out of state studs, along with Nelson this year. However, Arkansas, re-loads with foreigners every year(out of state scholarships) and Stanford - wow - they get at least 2 men and 2 women footlocker finalist every year, along with a couple of 4:12 or better milers. Hall(close to 4min mile and 9 min 2 mile in HS is what 6th guy? Erin Sullivan - former foot locker champ - 5th woman, the deepest state in the country to pull from and the best facilities in the country and an incredible academic institution. Not unlike he did in Nj Wetmore is competing with all comers despite a little toughter odds. Soorry - Run in the buff - don't be bitter!
Good call re: Tiernan, Shayne, Reese, Batliner, et al. Not to mention the late Chris Severy. Upon further reflection this is likely an Arkansas or less likely a Stanford troll attempting to stir things up. Not many runners can be that ignorant on purpose, obviously their "argument" has been blown out of the water. Someone from the Hogs pulled this act last year before NCAAs too. I guess in someone's eyes we took the bait. It's probably only one guy and the team wouldn't condone it. So har-har. I can't imagine it has an iota of infleunce on the outcome of NCAAs but someone must think it does. A colossal waste of time here on someone's petty, mean-spirited prank.
As I understand the term "walk on" according to the NCAA, it does simply mean that you are not getting any scholarship. Now, they do distinguish between walk-on and recruited walk-on-so maybe that takes the element of surprise out when they show up at your office asking to come out.
Hodge and Malmo aren't dissing ex. phys. What they are saying is that it takes MORE than just a degree in that to be a good coach. Too many lab types are so unpersonable and uninspiring that they become lousy coaches. You have to understand motivation and be able to relate your knowledge to the athlete and know what turns their crank. You don't have to put all the clinical terms on a workout to explain to a kid why it is good for them. But, you better be able to get the kid to attach importance to what they are doing and somehow find out just how it is you'll be able to get them to love what they are doing or they just won't max out in this sport we all have a great passion for.
Ahhh your the dipshit, I asked a question about Butler & super coach Wetmore. The Sandrock article is full of Butler & Wetmore's advice, so what happened? I guess nothing, thanks. Why include that part about Butler/Wetmore in the news piece if nothing happened? It could have read....."Joe Blow asked for help, Wetmore said run alot for one year, see ya good bye" Have a good life.
If I wanted to get rid of a pain in the ass guy, what better than to say, " Run 100 miles per week for one year and then come talk to me."?
Do you still have the blinders on?
What would happen if the Stanford runners had a real coach huh? I guess they would run a perfect score next year huh? I heard someone say that Lear was in Palo Alto for a year and couldn't find anything to write about. I wonder why.
NCAA's proves it! Take a 1st rate team and a 4th rate coach and you will finish....
....4th.
Damn, you're right man! Take a 1st rate team and a 1/2 assed coach and win . . . 2 titles in 10+ years, despite recruiting (and finding creative entrance and financial aid for) more talent than can be found on the rosters of the squads of the other top 5 teams combined. "How To Buy An Occasional Team Title 101".
Congrats Stanford!
Why so bitter?
He couldn't get you in?
no man that guys right, Stanford's roster is flat out sick. Their championship goes more towards ability to recruit than ability to coach. I mean what other team has 2-3 9 minute two milers not making the national squad?
[quote]Zeke wrote:
NCAA's proves it! Take a 1st rate team and a 4th rate coach and you will finish....
....4th.[/quo
Looks like someone is still bitter about losing his girlfriend.
Run in the buff wrote:
How does a list of 4 build a reputation?
Didn't Friedberg go to school in Steamboat Springs after hs so that he could get in state tuition and transfer credits without starting his eligability. Wasn't he like a 21 year old freshman? He didn't get on that program without some recruiting. Now you have a list of 3.
Hmmm, now where the f*** would someone who has graduated from h.s. go to school in Steamboat Springs? Colorado Mountain College?! Ski school????