Cheseret wins 13:49, rtiz second

Ritz' 13:52 did seem slow, but as someone else pointed out, it dropped everyone fairly early except Cheseret. Ritz is a great racer, but could not overcome a better 5K runner.

Where was billy nelson

So he got out-kicked in a hot, humid championship race, SO WHAT?? This is the guy that always collapses at the end of races because he literally runs himself into the ground.

Witness:

-his Footlocker xc win his junior year in high school

-his 13:51 at the Penn Relays 5k his senior year

-his NCAA xc win this past year

-his 27:38 a few weeks ago

Nobody can say that Ritz doesn't go all out when it counts. Hasn't everybody here been outkicked at some point in his/her racing career? What if Ritz had killed himself to win the 5k, but then gotten injured somehow and couldn't run at the trials? Would the extra place at NCAAs as a sophomore outweigh the possibility of competing at the Olympics at 20? (21?)

I'm sure Ritz would have rather won the 5k, and I'm a huge Ritz fan so I wish that he had won as well. But I'm sure he'll be a lot happier with a spot on the Olympic team than another NCAA title, one of a half dozen or so I'm sure he'll accumulate before he graduates.

what if webb got injured during his 335? or 333? or 332? or 146?

I don't think Ritz knew that Chez had fallen and gotten back up.

that would where your coach and others on your would fill you in.

YOU GOTTAA GO NOW!!!! JONAH IS DOWN!!! GO!!!!!!! THIS IS WHERE YOU WIN THIS ONE!!!! GO NOW!!!!!!!!

Slight edit.

Blood-curdling Scream wrote:

YOU GOTTAA GO NOW!!!! CHES IS DOWN!!! GO!!!!!!! THIS IS WHERE YOU WIN THIS ONE!!!! GO NOW!!!!!!!!

;-)

"4. Dathan chances at US Trials are still very good, look at the athletes he did dropped in the NCAA 5000m Teg and Louis L. are extremely good and couldn't stay with Dathan or Robert."

Very well said. Although it was my first meet to watch in... 8 years I was impressed by the pace Ritzenhein pushed. Sure, it was "slow" but nobody except Cheseret could keep up. Tegenkamp and Luchini ran well (until Luchini faded) but were well behind these two. It looked like Solinski would stay close until dropped (literally) off the track. Even these few weren't very close the final laps.

Why does everybody keep overlooking the conditions last night? You talk about Ritz going out and running 13:20, faster than his PR, in horrible conditions. He DID keep the hammer down and dropped everyone but another very talented runner, who just happens to have a superior kick. There's a reason there was such a big gap after Ritz - they WERE running hard for the conditions.

It's quite easy for you and others (CO-Runner, etc.) to sit here on this board (not in Austin, apparently) and explain how Ritz should have run the race after having seen the results. If Ritz could have run 13:20 last night, what do you think that would equate to in ideal conditions? Close to 13:00? Do you think he could run that right now? Or perhaps you think he should have spent the last 1/2 of the school year training in a more humid locale to prepare for the 5K final.

I certainly wanted Ritz to win the race, but I'm not going to second guess a runner who is far more talented and experienced than myself. And I'm not going to second guess a coach with far superior knowledge and experience than me. You guys talk about tactics like there's a whole bag of trick plays that Wetmore and his runners should be able to pull out to "win the big one." Someone else labeled Ritz as "gutless" - usually that's reserved for when a runner lets the pace drag and just waits for a kick. That certainly doesn't describe this race.

Congrats to Cheseret and congrats to Ritz. I wish I could take 2nd at Nationals and have everybody bitching and moaning about shitty I ran.

BDG

Vipam wrote:

2. Robert has ONE OF the best kicks in collegiate athletes (maybe second only to Alistair) when Cheseret is fit.

VIPAM

i totally agree with your post vipam but nick willis may have something to say about that...just joking

i have a phisiological question for someone who knows running better than i do. everyone on here talks about how to run a fast 10 you have to be able to run a fast 5. but my question is this: if you are training soley for a 10k wouldnt you not be real sharp to run an awesome 5k? they just seem so different in nature and i thought that they use mainly different energy systems (if i am an idiot please dont rip me apart). my point is just bc 27:38 converts to whatever it does for a 5k doesnt mean that ritz could run that even in ideal conditions bc he is working on aerobic system and some threshold work not necessarily as bob k. put: "the 5k is flat out lactate tolerence" and whatever he does run is off of strength ex. mebs 13:11

as far as the actual race goes ritz should have taken notes from the indoor 3k this year where cragg ran the last 2000m in 5:36 to put the junk in willis' legs

Does Cheseret run in the US Olympic Trials? Or is he a Kenyan?

BDG wrote:

I wish I could take 2nd at Nationals and have everybody bitching and moaning about shitty I ran.

BDG

haha, exactly.

Why does everybody keep overlooking the conditions last night? You talk about Ritz going out and running 13:20, faster than his PR, in horrible conditions. He DID keep the hammer down and dropped everyone but another very talented runner, who just happens to have a superior kick. There's a reason there was such a big gap after Ritz - they WERE running hard for the conditions.

It's quite easy for you and others (CO-Runner, etc.) to sit here on this board (not in Austin, apparently) and explain how Ritz should have run the race after having seen the results. If Ritz could have run 13:20 last night, what do you think that would equate to in ideal conditions? Close to 13:00? Do you think he could run that right now? Or perhaps you think he should have spent the last 1/2 of the school year training in a more humid locale to prepare for the 5K final.

I certainly wanted Ritz to win the race, but I'm not going to second guess a runner who is far more talented and experienced than myself. And I'm not going to second guess a coach with far superior knowledge and experience than me. You guys talk about tactics like there's a whole bag of trick plays that Wetmore and his runners should be able to pull out to "win the big one." Someone else labeled Ritz as "gutless" - usually that's reserved for when a runner lets the pace drag and just waits for a kick. That certainly doesn't describe this race.

Congrats to Cheseret and congrats to Ritz. I wish I could take 2nd at Nationals and have everybody bitching and moaning about shitty I ran.

BDG[/quote]

finally a word of reason!

Gofromthegun wrote:

If Ritz can't handle Austin in June then Athens would be like a swift kick in the nuts for him - better just give his spot to someone who can handle less than perfect weather.

Clearly you failed geography. Austin is quite hot and humid in June. In Athens the humidity will be closer to Denver's than Austin's.

Athens, Greece

JULY 89 73 42%

AUG. 88 72 41%

Sacramento, CA

JULY 94 61 very dry

AUG. 93 61

Austin, TX

June 91 72 74%

Aug. 96 74 74%

Houston TX

JULY 92 57% 72 93%

AUG. 92 57% 72 93%

Washington DC

JULY 88 53% 71 86%

AUG. 87 55% 70 89%

New York, NY

JULY 85 55% 68 75%

AUG. 83 57% 67 78%

Denver CO

JULY 88 34% 58 69%

AUG. 86 35% 57 70%

Los Angeles, CA

JULY 84 53% 64 84%

AUG. 84 55% 65 84%

Detroit MI

JULY 83 54% 61 82%

AUG. 81 56% 59 86%

Portland OR

JULY 80 45% 56 82%

AUG. 80 46% 57 84%

Nairobi, Kenya

JULY 71 54 52%

AUG. 72 54 49%

Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

JULY 65 55

AUG. 65 55

Here's my $.02 I seem to remember a guy who for his first couple years didn't do much at NCAA meets, he'd run fast, but at NCAAs or he wouldn't be able to pull it out. He ran 3:42 for 1500m as a soph in track and had a PR of roughly 13:25 or so in the 5k. However, he hadn't won a title on the track and at NCAAs in the 5k his sophomore year he got outkicked by a Kenyan in hot weather.

That'd be Alistair Cragg. Ritz will be okay, he's still in college.

i seem to remember alistair winning the indoor 5k that year but that may not be doing much

note: to compare outkicked by cheseret compared to david isnt even a comparison

5k too short for him?

He has run 7:50 and 13:27 in his life. He will run much faster by the end of college, you guys are funny. Hasn't it ever occured to you that all of the great 10k runners have also been great 5k runners?

Zatopek, Kuts, Clarke (27:39/13:16), Viren, Yifter, Rono, Mamede, Kunze, Schildhauer, Antibo, Barrios, Ondieki (13:01/26:58), Geb, Tergat, Pinto (13:02/27:12), Hissou (12:50/26:38 WR), Mourhit (12:49/26:52), Skah (13:00/27:14), Bekele ...

There are a bunch of good kickers in there and a bunch of slow-finishers, but the 5k and 10k are not that different, Ritz can run both.

Anyone you find that is poor in either the 5k or 10k is either more of a 1500/3k runner or a 10k/marathon runner. There are just too many great runners at 5k AND 10k who were pretty slow (Lopes, Salazar, Shorter, Roelants, Barrios, ... ) to assert that DR can't match his 27:38 with a fast 5k. He may never be a fast finisher, but it takes better speed than he has to be a fast-finisher in either the 5k or the 10k.

One thing everyone has to worry about now is their chances in the Oly Trials. Ritz lost one in HS to a college runner (Tegenkamp) and then roared back at WCCC. He lost some races this year and than roared back with the 27:38. HE doesn't like to lose and won't be able to stand it. He will be tough to deal with at 5k and 10k at the Trials.

chuck d wrote:

the guy's a 10K runner, what do you expect will happen to him at 5K?

hsrunner wrote:

So he got out-kicked in a hot, humid championship race,

What if Ritz had killed himself to win the 5k, but then gotten injured somehow and couldn't run at the trials? (21?)

[quote]

[quote]Vipam wrote:

3. Dathan may have trained thru NCAA being his team had no chance at a high team placing.

VIPAM

I looked at the results and saw Ritz was second.

Then I looked at this thread and realised

a)Lost at 5000m, so don't count

b)It was only because it was hot, so does not count

c)He didn't even put a 100% in, if he did he would have won

d)He had trained through it, what do you expect

I am pretty relieved to see Ritz is still unbeatable, was worried when I saw the result.