$5/gallon Gas - There Goes the Economy

Source for what specifically? I frankly have so many sources on this I could type for hours.

virginia runner wrote:

ryan foreman wrote:

Gas is not going to go up to $5/gallon unless perhaps for a very brief spike. Its proven that when gas goes beyond $4/gallon Americans cut back on their gas consumption, producers put more on the market and prices go down. Certainly if gas approaches $5/gallon Obama will tap the strategic reserve.

It never ceases to amaze me how people pretend they understand supply and demand, yet they throw that principle out the door the second they discuss what the price of something may be.

Do you have any source for that?

agip wrote:

my understanding is that we are a net energy exporter because of the monster natural gas boom going on. But on the oil side we import more than we export.

Not even close. We remain massive net energy importers. The natural gas surplus barely makes a dent in the oil shortfall.

agip wrote:

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my understanding is that we are a net energy exporter because of the monster natural gas boom going on. But on the oil side we import more than we export.

No, we are not a net energy exporter. We are having a shale boom, but natural gas is much more difficult to transport than oil (you have to make it into LNG or have a pipeline). We are projected to become a net natural gas exporter in around 2016. We are current importing roughly a quarter of our total energy (i.e. half of our oil).

We are a net exporter of petroleum products, but dependent on imported petroleum (mostly Canada, RIP Keystone XL)to make said products.

They vote Republican regardless of where the person was educated. I do agree that cultural seems to trump economic interests.I have a different theory though too. I think they are easily manipulated. They see a bigger threat from minorities and immigrants than the rich. They are not jealous of the rich guy paying 15% but they are jealous of the union guy who gets benefits

agip wrote:

Question for Republicans: Are poor people (as a group)stupid? Why is it that the 10 poorest states in the union are the most strongly pro Republican. Heck, 15 to 20% of them didn't even have health insurance and they are voting against the party that's going to cover them.

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it's cultural values vs economics. think culturally here. Are white kansans really going to vote for an eastern educated ivy league liberal?

not a prayer, even if doing so goes against their economic interests.

It would seem the Democratic states (smart people I assume) are the ones whose economies are in the crapper. That don't sound too smart. They continue to vote for the party that rapes their wallet and bankrupts their state. Genius! As for the health insurance fiasco rates are skyrocketing as we knew they would. Noone wants this catastrophy, they never did, but parlimentary tricks shoved up our a**es. Bart Stupak, what a trusting soul. Dummy, any fool could have seen through the lies.

Europeans pay high prices for gas BECAUSE their gas tax is what pays for their roads. We here in America bitch about gas being to much and taxes being too high yet expect roads and such. Their government isn't raping them but rather being honest. It's us who are being tricked. If you use a small fuel efficient car you are paying just as much for road use as everyone in a giant truck, despite them wearing the road differently.

stuck with match.com wrote:

Obama is such an idiot, he had a chance to not be worst the president ever but his recent actions have all but secured that. Congrats Barry!

The President actually does not have a lot of control over oil prices. The housing market, interest rates, the stock market and jobs, etc. are all trending in the right direction and we have had some of our highest oil prices when the economy was good and vice versa. To understand oil (gas) prices you need to step away from U.S. presidential politics and follow international economics. Wikipedia has some good basic information on OPEC, the emerging Asian oil demand's effect on the oil market, etc. (Check it out.) The good news is, traditionally, high oil prices don't stay high for too long because when gas prices are high, U.S. demand declines, supply increases, which in turn reduces gas prices. (You need to find something else to bash the President with.) like the average Joe, I am not an advocate of paying $5 bucks for a gallon of gas, but when gas prices are high, I see more people walking and biking for transportation and greater emphasis on exploring alternative energy sources, which is a good thing.

Btw, I am not a big a defender of the President because I am not in agreement with all of his decisions and/or how he has handled certain things. But, he has not weaken our sense of safety/security, he has not committed us to any unjust wars, made decisions that have had an adverse negative impact of the economy, committed corrupt and/or immoral acts, etc. I think the President is doing a pretty good job all things considered and I doubt the 2008 alternatives in McCain/Palin or Hillary would be doing any better. There are some valid criticisms of the President, but, when you use extreme terms like "worst the president ever", you lose all credibility. (Just keeping it real!)

The EIA wrote:

agip wrote:

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my understanding is that we are a net energy exporter because of the monster natural gas boom going on. But on the oil side we import more than we export.

No, we are not a net energy exporter. We are having a shale boom, but natural gas is much more difficult to transport than oil (you have to make it into LNG or have a pipeline). We are projected to become a net natural gas exporter in around 2016. We are current importing roughly a quarter of our total energy (i.e. half of our oil).

We are a net exporter of petroleum products, but dependent on imported petroleum (mostly Canada, RIP Keystone XL)to make said products.

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Not sure if are disagreeing or not - I don't have the technical knowledge. But from the Wall Street Journal:

U.S. exports of gasoline, diesel and other oil-based fuels are soaring, putting the nation on track to be a net exporter of petroleum products in 2011 for the first time in 62 years.

A combination of booming demand from emerging markets and faltering domestic activity means the U.S. is exporting more fuel than it imports, upending the historical norm.

U.S. exports of gasoline, diesel and other oil-based fuels are soaring, putting the nation on track to be a net exporter of petroleum products in 2011 for the first time in 62 years, Liam Pleven reports on Markets Hub.

According to data released by the U.S. Energy Information Administration on Tuesday, the U.S. sent abroad 753.4 million barrels of everything from gasoline to jet fuel in the first nine months of this year, while it imported 689.4 million barrels.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet:

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=24

Right before an election, gas goes up. Right around the election, it goes WAAAAY down. That's what will happen. It was just 4 years ago, people.

Keith Stone wrote:

Lemon Law wrote:

A Piece of Crap. They catch on fire.

So did the Ford Pinto, they still sold a s**tload of them.

This is a great new slogan for the Volt: "Chevy Volt--the next Ford Pinto!" With the special feature of catching on fire in your garage.

Kudos to you for recognizing that you don't have the technical knowledge. I tried to point you in the right direction several posts up. Here is a second try.

The figures you are pointing to are referring to oil-based fuels. That is, they are talking about finished products (gasoline, deisel, etc). This only says something about how much refinery capacity we have versus what we need for our own use. It says nothing at all about total petroleum energy imports/exports or total energy imports/exports.

To take an extreme example, we could be importing 100% of our petroleum and still be a net exporter of petroleum-based fuels because petroleum itself is not considered to be a petroleum-based fuel.

The article you cite shows imports of 690 million barrels of petroleum-based fuels in nine months. This compares to over 5 Billion barrels of petroleum imported during those same nine months. You're simply talking about two different things.

What is important to talk about when considering energy balances is the actual energy imported/exported NOT the finished products (which is more akin to talking about one component of manufacturing product trade balances).

For a simple synopsis of our oil production/consumption please see the following article.

The Chevy Volt is what is produced when the federal gov't owns your company. Next time Obama should let ex-Soviets and ex-Communits run GM. They'd do a better job than useless American civil servants ;-)

Man, my head hurts after reading this thread.

Oil futures have gas at about 4$ a gallon in the summer. Seems about right.

As for our own production, analysts predict 2016-2020 as the time when America can become the biggest exporter in the world.

thanks - this sort of thing is what makes lrc great.

Both parties are more than willing to take credit for stuff that happens when they're sitting in office, even if it's just a happy accident of history.

I knew I would get people all worked up if I threw the Volt out there. So predictable.

But really, a car that you could commute in every single day without using a drop of gas but still could utilize gas for quick fill ups on long trips without having any range anxiety sounds like a good hedge against gas prices.

Better if the car wasn't so expenseive to buy, yes.

A car company that led the world in sales and had it's most profitable year ever also sounds like a compnay that is doing well.

This is the first full year of the Volt.

If technology improves and you get economies of scale, we could be on our way to having a number of affordable electric cars with gas back-up generators from different companies.

This would be a big help to drive down the demand for gas.

Who cares what company makes these cars down the road (pun intended).

Government Motors wrote:

The Chevy Volt is what is produced when the federal gov't owns your company. Next time Obama should let ex-Soviets and ex-Communits run GM. They'd do a better job than useless American civil servants ;-)

Sometimes I swear conservatives try to sound stupid. Really, is it so hard to put facts behind your statement:

1. The Volt was being developed well before the government bailed out GM. Or maybe you think that developing a new car is just a matter of a couple months work?

2. The federal government does not own GM. It's not even close.

If you look at the increases in the cost of education, food, housing, etc., and the gas increases in other countries, gas perhaps should legitimately be around $5 bucks a gallon. Perhaps the U.S. has used artifical/ geopolitical means to keep gas prices down and we running our of tricks and influence. With the emerging Asian demand for oil, the day has come when gas is going to be higher and there is nothing we can do about it.

Indeed Con., very ironic comment that you made. Look at the economies of the 10 poorest states who are also staunchly Republican and reread part of your post.

conundrum indeed wrote:

are the ones whose economies are in the crapper. That don't sound too smart. They continue to vote for the party that rapes their wallet and bankrupts their state. Genius! .... Dummy, any fool could have seen through the lies.